Gloucestershire suspend all certificate applications

eightlittlebits · Nov 4, 2024

Not good news for anyone under Gloucestershire firearms, they appear to have suspended all certificate applications due to "unexpected resourcing issues", and are quoting 24 months for anyone that has already applied.

https://www.gloucestershire.police....on/fi/af/g/firearms-licensing-service-update/

jonz · Nov 4, 2024

The cynic in me thinks it’s all just part of the justification for enormous price rises for FAC’s and shotgun licenses……

Westward · Nov 4, 2024

It seems they're still doing renewals but not new applications. I won't state my opinion on this.

PeeJay · Nov 4, 2024

eightlittlebits said:
Not good news for anyone under Gloucestershire firearms, they appear to have suspended all certificate applications due to "unexpected resourcing issues", and are quoting 24m months for anyone that has already applied.

https://www.gloucestershire.police....on/fi/af/g/firearms-licensing-service-update/

Wow

. They’re stating a MINIMUM of 24 months for existing applications.

eightlittlebits · Nov 4, 2024

Westward said:
It seems they're still doing renewals but not new applications. I won't state my opinion on this.

Yeah, comments elsewhere I've seen suggest they have a backlog of around 450 grant applications to work through and they're prioritising renewals.

Freddypip · Nov 4, 2024

I expect this will end up with an application for judicial review based on the Police failing to perform their statutory function. It's not where we want to be.

eightlittlebits · Nov 4, 2024

Makes a good argument for removing the licensing from individual forces and to a national system.

When you have some that have been turning grants around in 2 working weeks (Essex), some taking 12 months (Hampshire) and now some not taking any grant applications and quoting 24 months, something is seriously seriously wrong with the management of firearms licensing across the country.

MartynB · Nov 4, 2024

Out of interest , has that constabulary adopted the Domestic Abuse Screening questionnaire as a standard requirement . That alone will increase the workload per application . It’s compulsory in a number of forces now .

I’ve also heard that although certificate numbers are falling in total nationally , the new applications rate has actually gone up causing more work than the cancelled renewals would have if they’d gone ahead . ( Caveat , that was from learned colleagues at shoot lunch who know a bloke who know a bloke . so it could be total bollocks )

I’ve recently had my W.Yorks renewal interview 4 weeks after submission , the FEO came along armed with a super slick laptop , everything renewal based at the click of a button as the force has gone digital with online applications only . Very impressive , I was issued with an eight week certificate extension to cover any admin delay that may arise , but that’s been standard procedure for the last 10 years I think as I’ve had that before .

eightlittlebits · Nov 4, 2024

MartynB said:
Out of interest , has that constabulary adopted the Domestic Abuse Screening questionnaire as a standard requirement . That alone will increase the workload per application . It’s compulsory in a number of forces now .

I don't think so. I believe "project titanium" is being trialled by Gwent, the Metropolitan Police, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, and Hertfordshire.

Grants appear to be up, but only slightly.

Renewals down on the past

Overall looks to me like the entire workload should be lower...

MartynB · Nov 4, 2024

Titanium is a requirement here in West Yorks , one of the questions is something like ‘ does your partner have an interest in criminals and criminality ‘ … my other half was going to respond ‘ Well he does keep watching re-runs of The Sopranos ‘ .

All joking apart , she received an e-mail
request ( via her personal account which she gave to the FEO ) to complete the assessment and replied directly . I’m not saying that it’s a bad thing , but it’s another piece of information that will need assessing in conjunction with the whole background check.

schmokinn · Nov 4, 2024

They are simply looking for reasons to refuse people as that is easier for them than actually doing the job we pay them for.
The funding thing is simple they do not allocate funds to something that is ahrder to do than others.
I had 3 extensions and a temporary before they told me it was granted and then days later they said it wasn't and i had to do the whole medical thing.
As my practice is part of a business group of several practices they refuse to do so then medcert which had a backlog so altogether 18 months.
if you have to put your guns into storage through no fault of your own the police should bare the costs,pretty sure they would pull their collective finger out then.
The whole system is a joke....

MartynB · Nov 4, 2024

Lots could be done . What BASC were pushing for is the 10 year certificate because certificate holders now have a firearms flag on NHS computer systems . If I were a management consultant, I’d be pushing this , charge double the 5 year rate , get rid of a third of staff , win -win , loads of capacity at no revenue loss then stagger renewal dates like they did when they went from 3 to 5 .

Plus remove firearms variations for like for like calibres , go for one sold , then one can be bought , plus take all moderators off ticket . It’s stupid to license with a variation , a steel baffle , that a ) you can legally buy and put on an air rifle or shotgun , b) can be fabricated in O level metal work , anyone who has fired a .308 stalking rifle with a moderator knows it’s not the silencer of James Bond myth . Moderators alone make up nearly 50% of all section 1 transactions and great proportion of them have no visible identification marks .

Garwood2 · Nov 4, 2024

MartynB said:
Lots could be done . What BASC were pushing for is the 10 year certificate because certificate holders now have a firearms flag on NHS computer systems . If I were a management consultant, I’d be pushing this , charge double the 5 year rate , get rid of a third of staff , win -win , loads of capacity at no revenue loss then stagger renewal dates like they did when they went from 3 to 5 .

Plus remove firearms variations for like for like calibres , go for one sold , then one can be bought , plus take all moderators off ticket . It’s stupid to license with a variation , a steel baffle , that a ) you can legally buy and put on an air rifle or shotgun , b) can be fabricated in O level metal work , anyone who has fired a .308 stalking rifle with a moderator knows it’s not the silencer of James Bond myth . Moderators alone make up nearly 50% of all section 1 transactions and great proportion of them have no visible identification marks .

Far too much commonsense in those proposals for the powers that be !!!!

eightlittlebits · Nov 4, 2024

There's a couple of outstanding consultations that included a some of the below suggestions, usefully neither have any results published yet.

MartynB said:
Lots could be done . What BASC were pushing for is the 10 year certificate because certificate holders now have a firearms flag on NHS computer systems . If I were a management consultant, I’d be pushing this , charge double the 5 year rate , get rid of a third of staff , win -win , loads of capacity at no revenue loss then stagger renewal dates like they did when they went from 3 to 5 .

10 year tickets were on https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-licensing-recommendations-for-changes.

Realistically the fees need to go up, they don't cover costs. People pay £35.80 for a 2 rod fishing licence which lasts 12 months and is just popped in the post. Equivalent of £179 for 5 years and there's no work done in the process of issuing those.

MartynB said:
Plus remove firearms variations for like for like calibres , go for one sold , then one can be bought , plus take all moderators off ticket . It’s stupid to license with a variation , a steel baffle , that a ) you can legally buy and put on an air rifle or shotgun , b) can be fabricated in O level metal work , anyone who has fired a .308 stalking rifle with a moderator knows it’s not the silencer of James Bond myth . Moderators alone make up nearly 50% of all section 1 transactions and great proportion of them have no visible identification marks .

Sound moderators had their own consultation about removing them from a ticket, https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/firearms-licensing-sound-moderators.

As you say about the numbers, as of 31 March 2024 there's 355,921 rifles and 203,083 sound moderators on S1 tickets, a huge chunk of admin could be removed.

ScotMac · Nov 4, 2024

When you consider how lethal a vehicle can be in the wrong hands, the renewal of a licence is remarkably lacking in any real scrutiny.

Freddypip · Nov 5, 2024

It's a very good point regarding cost- simply charge the amount it costs to administer then it can be adequately resources.

The same problems exists getting probate - they charge £285 and immediately tell you it's a 16 week minimum wait.

It's either they are charging the right amount and not doing the job right, or not charging the right amount though of course it could be both !!

FESkent · Nov 5, 2024

Freddypip said:
It's a very good point regarding cost- simply charge the amount it costs to administer then it can be adequately resources.

The same problems exists getting probate - they charge £285 and immediately tell you it's a 16 week minimum wait.

It's either they are charging the right amount and not doing the job right, or not charging the right amount though of course it could be both !!

indeed we do not just want to reward poor performance and get no benefit from paying a lot more. Then if it is very expensive to enter the sport what would that do for the future of the sport.

Kent look to be performing very well, I recently applied for my renewal that runs out in January and very quickly received my new certificates dated to start for when my current ones expire in January.
So well done Kent, and if they can do it no excuse for others not to do likewise.

FESkent · Nov 5, 2024

NABIS are not happy about removing mods from FAC

https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteA...oderators---nabis-response-march-2024-002.pdf

eightlittlebits · Nov 5, 2024

FESkent said:
NABIS are not happy about removing mods from FAC

https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteA...oderators---nabis-response-march-2024-002.pdf

Their position seems to be that if moderators are taken off ticket they they will likely see an increase in use by criminals. This seems to be purely an issue of supply as if not licensed they could be freely purchased. I doubt many criminals are getting slots on their FAC before knocking over the local post office...

Their suggestion doesn't seem unreasonable though:

One suggestion would be to retain the current definition in the Firearms Act, however for the purposes of licensing, an item covered by Section 57(1)(d) could be held on the same firearm certificate as the gun (or one of the guns) it is to be used with. This could save costs in licensing as a separate application would not need to be made and a separate certificate would not need to be issued for each sound moderator

If a FAC slot entitled you to "firearm and applicable moderator" instead of their own slot they don't need the admin of applying separately, and are still only sold to those with an FAC slot for the firearm that the moderator is to be used with.

Timfish · Nov 5, 2024

I live in Glos and have a year left on my certificate. Hopefully things might be sorted by then…..

There have been ‘issues’ here for ages - two of my renewals were delayed months (but not the most recent one).

I once had a visit from a civilian who came to check my security after a house move; he told me he had 3 big boxes full of unprocessed paperwork relating to shotgun sales/transfers at home…….

Gloucestershire suspend all certificate applications

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