410 vs 12 Bore (Pattern Test)

[Simbo]

 

[westley]

I am NOT a big fan of Mr. Carrie, but, I have to agree with his findings (something that I have advocated for a good number of years, especially with a youngsters first gun).  At the risk of appearing to be totally PC, I do hope he has his gun insured. For such an experienced shooter to be seen ON FILM,  leaving a gun like that,  beggars belief  !

 

[CharlesP]

I was a bit astonished that anyone would do their pattern testing around buildings, especially with the pattern plate so close to an open door. ..

 

[ChrisPackham]

Is he ok? Seems to be struggling to get a sentence out?....

I was a bit astonished that anyone would do their pattern testing around buildings, especially with the pattern plate so close to an open door. ..

Might look a bit risky but Im pretty sure this fella knows what he is doing..

I agree with his findings to having had a 410 fully moderated gun and used four long and eley subs, the ONLY use for these guns is very very close Rabbits or for humane dispatch with traps.  Pigeon being hit (you could hear the shot) but not killed was concerning.

Although I abhor Mt Carries out of range showing off shooting videos, I admire the fact that he goes out of his way to raise the profile of game shooting and has challenged the use of 410.

Makes you wonder whether the use of small bores for living creatures is ethical.

 

[Charliedog]

Is he ok? Seems to be struggling to get a sentence out?....

Might look a bit risky but Im pretty sure this fella knows what he is doing..

I agree with his findings to having had a 410 fully moderated gun and used four long and eley subs, the ONLY use for these guns is very very close Rabbits or for humane dispatch with traps.  Pigeon being hit (you could hear the shot) but not killed was concerning.

Although I abhor Mt Carries out of range showing off shooting videos, I admire the fact that he goes out of his way to raise the profile of game shooting and has challenged the use of 410.

Makes you wonder whether the use of small bores for living creatures is ethical.

rats

 

[westley]

Leaving a gun in that position,  I would question the "He knows what he is doing" statement    !  Perhaps Nigel Teague raises his barrel dents and straightens the gun's rib too  ?  

 

[perazman]

.410's are no good at long range shocker!

The quicker people see these self publicising attention seekers for what they really are, the better.

They mascarade as some sort of social media do gooders fighting our cause on our behalf. Its rubbish. 

If they cared that much, then how about a large anonymous donation to one of the professional organisations that do defend our sports? Na, didn't think so!

Can someone explain how a youtube video entitled "kill shots" helps our cause?

Interesting that someone sponsored by Gamebore decides not to use their cartridges when trying to highlight a bores inadequacies!

Rant over!

 

[ChrisPackham]

Leaving a gun in that position,  I would question the "He knows what he is doing" statement    !  Perhaps Nigel Teague raises his barrel dents and straightens the gun's rib too  ?  

Didn’t watch all of it to be honest, couldn’t stand the stuttering um. Ah. Eh, erm...

.410's are no good at long range shocker!

The quicker people see these self publicising attention seekers for what they really are, the better.

They mascarade as some sort of social media do gooders fighting our cause on our behalf. Its rubbish. 

If they cared that much, then how about a large anonymous donation to one of the professional organisations that do defend our sports? Na, didn't think so!

Can someone explain how a youtube video entitled "kill shots" helps our cause?

Interesting that someone sponsored by Gamebore decides not to use their cartridges when trying to highlight a bores inadequacies!

Rant over!

Which organisations defend the sport? They seem to just be money collection machines.. and if it was an anonymous donation, how would you know or otherwise?

 

[Hamster]

If you look carefully you'll see that the steel pattern plate is on a mobile wheeled unit so its being in close proximity to the open door of a warehouse isn't what I personally see as a heinous safety oversight. It's his ruddy yard so I'm damn sure he knows whether or not it's being used for a wedding reception at that moment in time.  

I quite like the northern accent and had no trouble at all understanding him either, as regards the effectiveness of a .410, since buying one a few years ago I have rarely missed the opportunity to say what rubbish pieces of equipment they are    yes of course they'll knock a pigeon down at 30 yards when everything is lined up correctly including the stars but the reality is that if you fire at 10 sitters at that range 5 of them will be runners, it's simply not the right tool for that range. The many people who do use them to good effect must do so by keeping the range very short and refraining from taking shots that are anything other than fairly straightforward. Would I buy another one again ? Yes I would, quite fancy a classy single barrel in good order to carry around once in a blue moon for taking pot shots but a credible shotgunning tool it simply ain't. 

I enjoy these types of videos but the only area I wholeheartedly agree with others is that they mustn't actively give the impression that taking live game at 80+ yards should be an actual thing. What's possible and what is probable (wounding) are two widely different things. Breaking crossing clays at 80 yards with 5's is also not an indication that the same could be reliably done with an ounce of 7.5's, i.e, if you can't legally use that shot size then what's the point of the demonstration ? 

 

[westley]

I have watched youngsters struggling to hit something with their new present, (very often a Webley bolt action with FULL choke !) under Dad's watchful eye, for many years. Usually it is a dustbin lid that hovers some 20 feet in front of the shooter. The kids faces are a joy to behold,  when they manage to break one. The problems start to arise when Dad moves them off the practice/Instructor stand and out to where the big boys play. Naturally the child begins to miss more than he/she hits and quickly becomes demoralised. I have always advised a 28 bore that will fire the same load as a .410, but also has the capability to handle a bigger load as the youngster progresses. I taught my 3 Grandkids in  just this way, the eldest at 27,  is now getting very close to beating Grandad  !    Oh, and the other advantage of a 28 bore, Dad or Grandad can have loads more fun using it too  !   (which helps relieve the pain of ammo costs). 

 

[Hamster]

I have watched youngsters struggling to hit something with their new present, (very often a Webley bolt action with FULL choke !) under Dad's watchful eye, for many years. Usually it is a dustbin lid that hovers some 20 feet in front of the shooter. The kids faces are a joy to behold,  when they manage to break one. The problems start to arise when Dad moves them off the practice/Instructor stand and out to where the big boys play. Naturally the child begins to miss more than he/she hits and quickly becomes demoralised. I have always advised a 28 bore that will fire the same load as a .410, but also has the capability to handle a bigger load as the youngster progresses. I taught my 3 Grandkids in  just this way, the eldest at 27,  is now getting very close to beating Grandad  !    Oh, and the other advantage of a 28 bore, Dad or Grandad can have loads more fun using it too  !   (which helps relieve the pain of ammo costs). 

The 28g is much more suitable as an all round beginners tool, with the right load it can also be very handy for rough shooting as well as a realistic decoying companion. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

Since buying one a few years ago I have rarely missed the opportunity to say what rubbish pieces of equipment they are    yes of course they'll knock a pigeon down at 30 yards when everything is lined up correctly including the stars but the reality is that if you fire at 10 sitters at that range 5 of them will be runners, it's simply not the right tool for that range

To be honest, with subsonic fourlongs, 20 yards is a stretch on flying targets, ok for static birds or rabbits but that’s about it (I can see short range rats being a good shout although subs struggled on squirrel)

If you are looking for a cheap walk around single barrel I’d go for a 20 bore, loads around for little money, I bought a hanmer single of unknown European origin at game fair for 70 quid which is fun and just going through a stock refinish (forgot how boring doing that is)

 

[Hamster]

To be honest, with subsonic fourlongs, 20 yards is a stretch on flying targets, ok for static birds or rabbits but that’s about it (I can see short range rats being a good shout although subs struggled on squirrel)

If you are looking for a cheap walk around single barrel I’d go for a 20 bore, loads around for little money, I bought a hanmer single of unknown European origin at game fair for 70 quid which is fun and just going through a stock refinish (forgot how boring doing that is)

Yes I agree there are some nice 12/20 single barrels which would work FAR better than a .410 with say 21g or 24g loads for a walk around, the appeal of the .410 is actually its patheticness in a way   you know those days when you walk around for the sheer joy of it not really bothered whether you shoot anything but can't help yourself drawing an imaginary bead on everyfekkingthingthatmoves all the same   including the 15 yard magpies and woodies that you wait and wait till they have reached "humanitarian" range,  just imagine the fun you could have then. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

Agree completely, except  Magpies which must be destroyed on sight, shotgun, air gun, rimfire, centre fire, car, what ever tool I have to hand...

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

I did skip through the video a bit. Did he say what choke was in the .410? 

 

[westley]

Now I just happen to know where there is a very nice 20 bore single barrel ejector of Scottish make. 1/2 pistol grip 28" barrel, semi hammerless (bit like a Webley), nice wood, 14 1/2" LoP silver oval, top lever etc.etc.  Just over £100. 

 

[Simbo]

 

[Simbo]

 

[ChrisPackham]

In summary, 410 no good in live targets unless you spend 50 years pissing around home loading, even then only good at 30 yards IF you are up to placing an 18 inch pattern In the right place..

Watch out for the next Dave Carrie super special whiz bang Gamebore 410 high bird cartridges, 32g 4...