5 best sentences

[Rosso]

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

 

[BTC3]

Wise words.

Attribution?

 

[Bebo]

All complete rowlocks.

5 is particularly stupid.  Over a third of the population is either 16 and under or 65 and over. That statement suggests we should go back to sending 6 year olds up chimneys and bung the old folk who can't get a job in the workhouse. 

 

[ExSCA]

Wise words.

Attribution?

​

Adrian Rogers - american pastor : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Rogers

 

[Bebo]

 

[BTC3]

Thanks Matt!

The reason they caught my eye is that my wife and I were looking through paperwork for our next tax returns at the weekend and came to the sad conclusion that we contribute quite a lot if cash to government coffers, and get next to nothing in return.  Well, OK, we benefit from defence and diplomatic spending, but we're largely ineligible for NHS stuff that we'd like to access (or so we've been told in the last week), we can't get an NHS dentist space, we end up at private GPs when we need one as we cannot get appointments inside of a week from the local one, and when eventually we retire, thoughts of a government funded pension are but a joke.

We live in a safe seat for one of the political parties so our vote essentially counts for nothing, and the election seems to be skipping us entirely, unless the SNP/labour get in and we'll be even more screwed...  Late 30s professional, dual income couples: the new disenfranchised.

Rant over. Apologies.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

almost comical !

but in fact that is how South Africa is run  , no 3 is not quite  correct , in SA the government just take,!!   true`s Bob!

 

[Bebo]

I find it interesting how people relate what they pay in tax to what they see in terms of direct immediate return. I don't look at it that way.  What I pay in tax now is paying for other peoples kids to go to school, other people to get the medical treatment they need, other people to get the disability benefit they need because they can't work and to pay other peoples state pension.

When I was a kid, someone else's taxes paid for me to got to school.  They paid for the A&E  to remove a fishbone from my throat when I was three. They paid for my childhood trips to the dentist and GP.  When I no longer work, someone else's taxes will pay for my state pension and my winter fuel allowance and my NHS medical treatment.  Eventually, someone else's taxes may even part fund the cost of paying someone to wipe my arse for me when I'm no longer capable of doing it for myself.

I don't see my taxes as a buying something now, I see them almost as an insurance policy for when I wasn't able to earn in the past and won't be able to earn in the future. 

 

[Rosso]

All this rubbish on the telly about how better off everyone is with the new personal allowances going up and how many people no longer contribute any tax.

I have a K code, that's a minus tax allowance and from April I am £165 / month worse off. Trapped in a middle income tax net.

I have worked hard to get where I am and I too get no value from the tax I pay. Cannot get a dentist, doctor on NHS. If I go private I pay twice, it should be one or the other. Pot holes wrecking my Mercedes wheels.

I have seen my working time extended to 66. My wife missed out on retiring at 60 she too has to retire at 66.

You see paying tax as an insurance against that. You must live in never never land where everything is all fluffy and pink.

I am preparing for my own retirement and will not rely on the government for didly squat as all they have done is rob me blind over the years, while they are busy fiddling all their expense's with our money.

So good luck with all that I hope you work hard and pay lots of tax to keep me in the manner I am accustomed.

My rant is over.

 

[Bebo]

I've got to work until I'm nearly 68 before I qualify for a state pension, so it doesn't sound like I'll have to be paying taxes for long after you've gone.

If you've got a negative tax code that means you've got other incomes or benefits that you aren't being taxed on or you haven't paid what you should have in previous years.  I hope you remain in a position where your biggest complaints in life are that your Mercedes is suffering from potholes and that you've got independent incomes or benefits outside your salary that are big enough for you to need to pay 10k a year tax on. 

 

[BTC3]

I apologise for opening a can of worms. 

 

[Rosso]

Nice of you to say you will be paying tax after I have gone, I presume you mean dead.

My financial position is none of your business and I have never claimed a penny in benefit. Pot holes can cause serious accidents both for motorists and pedestrians if a car loses control, the roads were maintained from the old car tax. Where is that being spent now, not on the roads. Its being spent on all the fiddles going on by our illustrious leaders.

Why should I smash my wheels up in pot holes. The roads should be safe.

I have no complaints in life. Just want to hang to what I've got.

 

[Bebo]

Nice of you to say you will be paying tax after I have gone, I presume you mean dead.

My financial position is none of your business and I have never claimed a penny in benefit. Pot holes can cause serious accidents both for motorists and pedestrians if a car loses control, the roads were maintained from the old car tax. Where is that being spent now, not on the roads. Its being spent on all the fiddles going on by our illustrious leaders.

Why should I smash my wheels up in pot holes. The roads should be safe.

I have no complaints in life. Just want to hang to what I've got.

​Nope, I meant from the tax paying workforce.

As for your financial position, you're right, it's not my business.  However, if you whinge on a public forum about having a negative tax code don't be surprised if someone comments on it.

There hasn't been a direct relationship between vehicle tax and road expenditure since 1937 and even pre-1937 the vehicle tax didn't cover the cost of road building and repair. 

I fully agree that not enough money is spent on roads and that our illustrious leaders fiddle their expenses and need a swift kick in the proverbials. However, if your quote about 'you cannot multiply wealth by dividing it' was applied, all that does is leave the cash in the hands of those illustrious leaders and the mega-rich pals and leave the rest of us (even those with negative tax codes) driving on roads with holes in.   But then maybe I'm an idealist for thinking that 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' would be a better thing to work towards.

 

[BTC3]

But then maybe I'm an idealist for thinking that 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' would be a better thing to work towards.

​Ah, Marxism/Socialism rears its head...!  As an ultimate ideal, yes, this could work, though no-one has managed to make such arrangements work yet.

I do take a somewhat short-termist view that I would like to see something of a more immediate return on my investment in this country (taxes), but my real issue is that the attempts by successive governments to "sort out" transport, health, education, energy, etc. don't appear to have been particularly successful.  Yet we continue to pour money into them for no apparent benefit.  I would be prepared to either pay less tax and expect to pay for all my health insurance or educational needs, or pay a bit more tax and know that I am indeed guaranteed a high quality state provided health system or education (or whatever other service) when needed.  Anything but this current arrangement where I pay my tax but have to privately buy all the above services anyway because the people who decide how much I have to pay based on my ability have no sodding idea on how to spend it on those that need it (I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea).

 

[Bebo]

Yup, I get the idea.  Unfortunately, no political system truly works for everyone because whoever is running it looks after themselves and their cronies first.  If we're going for quote 'all animals and equal, but some are more equal than others' sums up why socialism hasn't worked.  For the other end of the spectrum, Thatcherism doesn't work because again you've got those at the top looking after themselves and absolutely no safety net catch those that fall out of the system.  If the Thatcherite aim of getting rid of the welfare state completely  went ahead then the only safety net would be based on the 'market' - benefits provided as part of an employment contract or reliance on charity.

As none of these seem to work, I'm personally more comfortably with a system that may not be truly fair to everyone, but at least offers some support for those that have no alternative.  Getting that balance right if the problem, as is making sure those in charge don't just line their own pockets.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Same on both sides of the pond.

I think we are fortunate beyond estimation to be able to live the lives we do considering the consummate pack of thieves and liars that inhabit the legislatures sucking the ass of the corporate sponsors.

Get real - your option is the adobe wall solution or an impowered electorate, and we all know that ain't gonna happen here or there

The REAL best sentence of all time ever was, "Follow the money".

 

[Oldblaster]

If you believe this to be true, you are very narrow minded! It's this sort of ideology that causes financial distress to all but a chosen few. Unfortunately we are not all made equal, and to be prosperous we must all play our part, the way to judge how successful a society is but the way it treats its weakest members. 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Adrian Rogers - american pastor : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Rogers

His pronouncements are certainly the embodiment of the Christian ideals as voiced by Jesus Christ.  His words and his political associations provide massive insight into the the Christian right in the US.  I  guess that should be "purported Christian" since I'm unable to detect much in there that makes it much more "Christian" than the Gott Mit Uns Nazis.  But that could just be me