A Beginner's Dilemma

[PeeBee]

After shooting air rifles for several years I’ve finally been persuaded by my experienced clay shooter brother-in-law to join his clay shooting club.  I’ve applied for my shotgun certificate which has around a 3 month wait, after which I’ll be looking to buy my own gun rather than borrow his and other club members’ guns to shoot at club meets.

Now I’m not going to ask which gun I should buy when I get my certificate, that’s a bit of a silly question really, but I think a more sensible question for an absolute beginner like me is which manufacturer I should be looking to buy from for the best value for money in the short term and for the best resale value should I decide to upgrade at a later date.

The new and second hand shotgun markets are bewildering to a newcomer.  The names that crop up time and again and seem to receive universal acclaim are Beretta, Browning and Miroku but then there are dozens of other names which seem to attract mixed opinions.  Names like Sabatti, Yilditz, ATA, Hatsan….et al.  Then there are the names which seem to attract pretty poor opinions all round like Baikal and one or two others.  Where does a beginner start to look?

So if I have a budget of around £1500 for my first 12 gauge O/U for use mainly for skeet and sporting clays, with maybe the occasional local rough shoot, which names should be on the shopping list – second hand from one of the ‘B’s or new from one of the others?

 

[ChrisPackham]

Having had a play with one this week, I’d buy an ATA for 600 and keep the money until you decide what you not as your main gun.  At the point you want to buy something nicer you will lawyer have a role for your old gun whether as a rough or wet weather gun.

 

[woody]

I know opinions are like ar5eholes and everyones got one,  but I would have a tired old tried and tested second hand Browning/Beretta/Miroku any day of the week.  A guy at my shoot spent 600 quid on a new ATA in November.  It repeatedly failed to fire.  We couldn't see anything wrong with it, but on inspection you can see/feel why these guns are cheap.  He's returned it for a refund.

Of course for everyone that says its a cheap horrid gun there will be someone that says its fantastic and great value for money. 

 

[jasper]

Browning ,Beretta ,miroku. Simples. Browning 525 sporter 1 in your budget new. Or stretch another £200 for an adjustable comb and never need another gun ever. You may WANT another gun . But you will never NEED another one. This will do it all and last a lifetime.

Jasper.

 

[MJJ]

As others have said - Browning/Miroku and Beretta. Try some of the club members guns, you may then get a 'feel' of what you like or dislike.

 

[LarsJ]

I know opinions are like ar5eholes and everyones got one,  but I would have a tired old tried and tested second hand Browning/Beretta/Miroku any day of the week.  A guy at my shoot spent 600 quid on a new ATA in November.  It repeatedly failed to fire.  We couldn't see anything wrong with it, but on inspection you can see/feel why these guns are cheap.  He's returned it for a refund.

Of course for everyone that says its a cheap horrid gun there will be someone that says its fantastic and great value for money. 

Resale value will be crap on my ATA. but so far + 5000 rounds trough it, not one misfire due to gun. Had 2 misfires due cartridges. 

Removable trigger, adjustable stock, shoots fine (when the good guys shoot with it, the do their normal numbers). And all for sub 1000£. 

As stated in my starter thread, my rationale was: if I'm not hooked, no great loss. Rather spend the money on cartridges and clays. And I couldn't afford (and still can't) the 3k and above guns. 

Talked to the dealer the other day, they have more warranty claims with a major brand (lower tier of the brands guns). 

But as you say, we all have opinions. 

Lars

 

[MartynB]

Like everyone else has said , put you money into a good used gun . I’d go a little further and say the optimum thing to buy , shoot , sell , is a 30” multickoke Sporter .  They sell all day long to everyone and their dog .  Great for sporting , Skeet , Ok for trap , brilliant for game . Again everyone else has said , and they are not wrong , buy a Browning , Miroku, or Beretta .  Before you buy do a bit of internet research and find the original specification of the gun . Don’t buy one with a shortened stock, make sure it comes with the case, tools , and chokes if they were part of the original spec.  All guns are not created equal , by the time you knock VAT , profit , limited resale potential , and or future trade in value on a Turkish copy gun you will loose 2/3 of the purchase price . On the used guns , keep it a few years you might break even . Of course my advice is buying with your head .. lots of people buy with their hearts !  

With £1500 you will have some lovely guns available 

 

[Simonix]

If you buy an ATA, be prepared to lose a shedload on it when you sell it on. £800ish new, be lucky to get £200 trade in...

If you get a 2nd hand browning/beretta/miroku, at least you can sell it for the same price you bought it for if you don’t get o with it, or want to upgrade, etc. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

ATA are 600 new

 

[westley]

ATA are 600 new

In that case £150 trade in  !          (maybe easier to just bin it !)

 

[danq]

agree with browning beretta and mirouku and 30 inch sporter suggest you go to somewhere like oxford gun company who have a shooting ground and a big shop try before you buy

 

[PeeBee]

Some very interesting and useful thoughts there.  Thanks everyone.

You've all hit the dilemma right on the head:  A second hand Beretta or Browning will be great value for money and will hold its price, but it will come with nothing else.  No case,  no chokes, probably no warranty, just the gun.  For the same price a brand new top-of-the-range Sabatti Sporter, for instance, comes with an Americal wallnut stock, adjustable comb, luxury ABS case, a set of 5 chokes and extensive warranty, but I'll lose significant money if I sell it on. 

There's the dilemma plain and simple and I can't make up my mind which way I should go, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.  I'm working on it!

 

[CharlesP]

A second hand Beretta or Browning really ought to come with a set of chokes.

These luxury ABS cases (luxury? really?) - is that the sort of thing you would actually use? Ever? For me its mostly a gunslip. 

And it has to be said that the "extensive warranty" on a bargain basement gun may well be worth no more than the paper it's printed on.

The "American Walnut" stock will have an equivalent on the Beretta or Browning.

 

[Will Hewland]

Some very interesting and useful thoughts there.  Thanks everyone.

You've all hit the dilemma right on the head:  A second hand Beretta or Browning will be great value for money and will hold its price, but it will come with nothing else.  No case,  no chokes, probably no warranty, just the gun.  For the same price a brand new top-of-the-range Sabatti Sporter, for instance, comes with an Americal wallnut stock, adjustable comb, luxury ABS case, a set of 5 chokes and extensive warranty, but I'll lose significant money if I sell it on. 

There's the dilemma plain and simple and I can't make up my mind which way I should go, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.  I'm working on it!

Nonsense. As said, it will have the lot. 

 

[SIMON-B]

Do you like it , does it feel right , DO YOU LIKE IT , does someone with experience feel it fits you near enough , ***DO YOU LIKE IT** . Buy something you are emotionally attached too that fits reasonably and you will enjoy shooting it, that is unless the money is a worry, then buy something from the big three.

 

[Sian]

Some very interesting and useful thoughts there.  Thanks everyone.

You've all hit the dilemma right on the head:  A second hand Beretta or Browning will be great value for money and will hold its price, but it will come with nothing else.  No case,  no chokes, probably no warranty, just the gun.  For the same price a brand new top-of-the-range Sabatti Sporter, for instance, comes with an Americal wallnut stock, adjustable comb, luxury ABS case, a set of 5 chokes and extensive warranty, but I'll lose significant money if I sell it on. 

There's the dilemma plain and simple and I can't make up my mind which way I should go, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.  I'm working on it!

My DT10 which was second hand but in excellent condition and hardly used came with everything including three triggers, left, right and straight.

 

[MartynB]

Some very interesting and useful thoughts there.  Thanks everyone.

You've all hit the dilemma right on the head:  A second hand Beretta or Browning will be great value for money and will hold its price, but it will come with nothing else.  No case,  no chokes, probably no warranty, just the gun.  For the same price a brand new top-of-the-range Sabatti Sporter, for instance, comes with an Americal wallnut stock, adjustable comb, luxury ABS case, a set of 5 chokes and extensive warranty, but I'll lose significant money if I sell it on. 

There's the dilemma plain and simple and I can't make up my mind which way I should go, but thanks for your thoughts anyway.  I'm working on it!

As I said earlier check what the gun should come with . I sold my wife’s 21 year old 682 Gold , it still had the  travel case ,  more chokes than it came with originally , spare trigger and sight beads !  That gun will still have a value in another   20 years .  With £1500 you will find very good used guns . From a good retailer you will get a warranty on a used gun . I got 6 months on the MK38 gd5 I bought a few months back . 

I don’t want to be disrespectful, but just think that most shooters move rapidly from their first gun , and what your getting is advice from lots of people who are trying to guide you away from mistakes they have made themselves ( thinking of myself 40 years ago walking out of the shop with a Winchester 1400 auto ! )  . With the mass market , I’d be pretty sure I could trade or sell on . With the brand you mention , there is the very real possibility a gun dealer won’t even part ex  it . 

 

[PeeBee]

Absolutely no disrespect taken Martyn.  I know nothing about this and therefore have a completely open mind on the subject of my first gun.

I listen to my brother-in-law who has encouraged me to take up the sport/hobby and has been shooting clays for over 40 years, I listen to the very experienced people at the club and I read with interest the views and opinions here.  It's inevitable that very experienced shooters have formed opinions over the years they've been shooting and have their favourites.  My bro-in-law is a dyed-in-the-wool Beretta person.  He's got two of them and would never have any other gun but to his credit he doesn't rubbish what he sees at lesser guns, he just says they aren't as good.  A chap I was chatting to at the club swore by Miroku and was adamant that I should start with an MK38 like his.  In fact I'm shooting his MK38 at a skeet shoot this weekend.  Another chap is heavily into semi-autos and uses his at the skeet shoot and suggested a specific semi-auto for my first gun.  Another chap at the club has an ancient old BSA side-by-side which he breaks as many clays with as anyone else, and there may be a lesson there too.

So I have to try to sift through all these thoughts, dare I respectfully say prejudices, see how they apply to my budget and at the end of the day make a decision before spending a four figure sum.  Hopefully I'll get to shoot enough borrowed guns at the club to make that decision come the time to buy my own.  One thing I'm sure of though, it won't be a semi-auto.  For some reason I find them a bit scary.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughs here, much appreciated.

 

[Sian]

Absolutely no disrespect taken Martyn.  I know nothing about this and therefore have a completely open mind on the subject of my first gun.

I listen to my brother-in-law who has encouraged me to take up the sport/hobby and has been shooting clays for over 40 years, I listen to the very experienced people at the club and I read with interest the views and opinions here.  It's inevitable that very experienced shooters have formed opinions over the years they've been shooting and have their favourites.  My bro-in-law is a dyed-in-the-wool Beretta person.  He's got two of them and would never have any other gun but to his credit he doesn't rubbish what he sees at lesser guns, he just says they aren't as good.  A chap I was chatting to at the club swore by Miroku and was adamant that I should start with an MK38 like his.  In fact I'm shooting his MK38 at a skeet shoot this weekend.  Another chap is heavily into semi-autos and uses his at the skeet shoot and suggested a specific semi-auto for my first gun.  Another chap at the club has an ancient old BSA side-by-side which he breaks as many clays with as anyone else, and there may be a lesson there too.

So I have to try to sift through all these thoughts, dare I respectfully say prejudices, see how they apply to my budget and at the end of the day make a decision before spending a four figure sum.  Hopefully I'll get to shoot enough borrowed guns at the club to make that decision come the time to buy my own.  One thing I'm sure of though, it won't be a semi-auto.  For some reason I find them a bit scary.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughs here, much appreciated.

Well I say enjoy the search for the gun.  I had my first one for five years and still have her, she has become the second gun to preserve her life.