ABT history

[TRINITY]

Hi guys, I am quite a late comer to Clay's but had a short dabble with the sport in the 70'S . Back then ball trap was not around as far as I am aware, so i would be interested to know when it came about. Also how did it get the name ball trap. Quite an unusual name to say the least.

Thanks

 

[balltrap]

Hi guys, I am quite a late comer to Clay's but had a short dabble with the sport in the 70'S . Back then ball trap was not around as far as I am aware, so i would be interested to know when it came about. Also how did it get the name ball trap. Quite an unusual name to say the least.

Thanks

Ball trap got its name from when they stopped shooting live pigeons from a trap, they then put feathers in a glass ball in France then hence the name it is a very old form of shooting dating back to before " IPS " was even born !

 

[TRINITY]

Ball trap got its name from when they stopped shooting live pigeons from a trap, they then put feathers in a glass ball in France then hence the name it is a very old form of shooting dating back to before " IPS " was even born !

Yes I have heard about that. But back when I can remember, dtl which was manually operated was the only type of trap discipline. Obviously the electric system with wider angles, height differentials and faster Clay's, which we now call ball trap came later. Any idea when they first came on the scene. Also it seems strange that a relatively modern system would adopt an old name . Did it come on the scene after UT or OTR. 

Also as a matter of interest what were the order of ABT, OTR and UT as refinements/variations of the original DTL.

Thanks

 

[Paul120]

Yes I have heard about that. But back when I can remember, dtl which was manually operated was the only type of trap discipline. Obviously the electric system with wider angles, height differentials and faster Clay's, which we now call ball trap came later. Any idea when they first came on the scene. Also it seems strange that a relatively modern system would adopt an old name . Did it come on the scene after UT or OTR. 

Also as a matter of interest what were the order of ABT, OTR and UT as refinements/variations of the original DTL.

Thanks

Phil R and 40UP may know better than me but It was around in the 60's as it was used to train for OT as there were next to no OT layouts in the UK then. 

It was probably cost of the trap and the need for acoustics and  the popularity  of DTL that meant it wasn't worth bothering with at most grounds. 

First time I saw it was at a private layout. 

.  

 

[Wonko the Sane]

The first "wobble" traps were made by Winchester and promoted as an inexpensive alternative to OT.  They gained popularity to the point that for a time under the international organization prior to the ISSF (I think it was called the UIT), the UIT sanctioned ABT events as an alternative to bunker in other than Olympic competitions.  Then the ISSF got full of itself and dropped the discipline figuring that if a shooter didn't have the $ to shoot bunker, screw 'em.  FITASC more attuned to encouraging development of shooting sports picked it up, just as they have done with a number of other shotgun games too common for the HOLY ISSF.

I'm sure there is more to it than that but that is what I know of it.  At one time I think I had a link to the Winchester involvement but that has been lost.  Maybe someone else can locate it.  Or it might be in one of the old books I have here - who knows.

 

[Oldabt]

The ‘White Flyer’ Trap made it possible and as most were using it for DTL it was possible to offer the Ball trap alternative. Of course the ‘game’ of Ball trap has been changed and went from an Arc shooting line like DTL to a straight line like OT and then to facilitate OT layouts the distances were pushed out to OT regs of 76 metres thereby making it a simple enough switch of the layout from OT to Ball Trap.

All done without any consideration for the Shooters until some years ago the target distance was reduced and it has resulted in some DTL shooters showing an interest in the game once again although not to the same degree as in the past. 
It is a Trap discipline that’s in need of a shot in the arm as for many recreational shooters it’s an enjoyable alternative to DTL. The step to OT is too wide for many and ABT provides the experience of faster trap targets with more challenging angles without the possible pain of learning to become competent enough at OT to get some enjoyment from it. 

 

[TRINITY]

Oldabt, good stuff

As a matter of interest ,where does UT figure in the grand scheme of things.  Never shot it myself. Is it closer to ABT in degree of  difficulty or more like OT

 

[Oldabt]

Oldabt, good stuff

As a matter of interest ,where does UT figure in the grand scheme of things.  Never shot it myself. Is it closer to ABT in degree of  difficulty or more like OT

I’ve heard it said that UT is ‘fair’ Ball Trap. Very popular in Continental Europe. More accessible than OT (with the exception of Italy). 

 

[jwpzx9r]

UT is a cheap and , in terms of targets shot, fair trap format. It is shot using five traps rather than 15 in OT . It is a computer controlled target scheme so every shooter shoots the same targets. The targets travel between 60 and 75m + or - so are travelling at different speeds and  mostly slower than FO. It is seen as an affordable setup for the club set up in France where most of the clubs are owned an run but the shooters. My own club down here in France has  FO/OT and FU /UT but even though we have all the traps in the FO fosse it is almost exclusively shot as UT . Last year we replaced the traps in the UT fosse at a cost of about € 27000 after trade in of the old ones. If we had to replace 15 traps instead of 5 it would have been €81000 so you can see how much more cost effective FU is . One other thing about the trap scene here in France is that shooting FO and FU require two different licenses issued by the FFBT and the FFT which adds considerable costs to things !

There is a new format been introduce a few years back  by FITASC called trap1 which is essentially ABT. The middle trap in a FU fosse has been replaced by a ABT trap but as far as I can see not very many clubs have adopted it simply because of costs involved in buying a trap at considerable cost.

 

[TRINITY]

I suppose that it would be possible with modern technology to set a ball trap up with five pre programmed settings and totally mimick a UT rig . However the only difference I could see is that the Clay's would all fire out from the same point, whereas UT there is more variation due to spacing of 5 traps. 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I suppose that it would be possible with modern technology to set a ball trap up with five pre programmed settings and totally mimick a UT rig . However the only difference I could see is that the Clay's would all fire out from the same point, whereas UT there is more variation due to spacing of 5 traps. 

It would be more complicated than that but still way doable.  Three or four vertical settings and a minimum of five horizontal.  With the electronics and computers today it would be a semi-pricey development but dirt cheap to produce and could be prolly adaptable to several makes of machines.  Just takes some programming $ and a good electrical/industrial engineer.

and BTW (IIRC) the UT was along with the ABT instituted and approved as an option in International competitions to the bunker in UIT days.