Adjustable comb, fashion or real benefit

[McTrucky]

Hi all,

Picking up on some one else's thread "Missing on the left" answered with some solid and clear advice from Hamster, I have been thinking about getting an adjustable comb fitted.

But 30 years ago, I could shoot pretty well (A at sporting, AA at DTL) and was in the trade and virtually no one used or needed adjustable combs.  Maybe we all learned to fit ourselves to the gun, rather than adjusting the gun to fit us.  Was that such a bad thing?  Is that why I could pick up any gun and shoot well with it 90% of the time?

I know times change, and 30 year old equipment is outdated in almost every aspect of life, but guns are pretty basic and design changes are usually more about marketing than function.

My problem is I can shoot fast close clays with satisfying ease; but far crossers,  or things going up and away from me, I seem to have no clue.  Seem's that if I have time to think about them, I end up throwing lead at them with no idea why I am missing.  I had thought I had a changing eye dominance issue, but it may well be that on fast reactive shooting I do shoot with the gun tighter to me, where as when I have time I am more relaxed and try to rifle shoot them.

So, like a million before me, I am thinking about spending on equipment rather than fixing the problem (i.e. blaming the gun and not the shooter).  Cost to have adjustable comb fitted seems to be about £200, which is not a huge sum of money - but would this be better spent on coaching, or should I suck it up and get both?

Thoughts please...

 

[Jan Powell]

Hi all,

Picking up on some one else's thread "Missing on the left" answered with some solid and clear advice from Hamster, I have been thinking about getting an adjustable comb fitted.

But 30 years ago, I could shoot pretty well (A at sporting, AA at DTL) and was in the trade and virtually no one used or needed adjustable combs.  Maybe we all learned to fit ourselves to the gun, rather than adjusting the gun to fit us.  Was that such a bad thing?  Is that why I could pick up any gun and shoot well with it 90% of the time?

I know times change, and 30 year old equipment is outdated in almost every aspect of life, but guns are pretty basic and design changes are usually more about marketing than function.

My problem is I can shoot fast close clays with satisfying ease; but far crossers,  or things going up and away from me, I seem to have no clue.  Seem's that if I have time to think about them, I end up throwing lead at them with no idea why I am missing.  I had thought I had a changing eye dominance issue, but it may well be that on fast reactive shooting I do shoot with the gun tighter to me, where as when I have time I am more relaxed and try to rifle shoot them.

So, like a million before me, I am thinking about spending on equipment rather than fixing the problem (i.e. blaming the gun and not the shooter).  Cost to have adjustable comb fitted seems to be about £200, which is not a huge sum of money - but would this be better spent on coaching, or should I suck it up and get both?

Thoughts please...

Personally, i'd seek the advice of a coach that specialises in the discipline you shoot before you make any gun purchases or alterations. The cause of your misses could be down to any number of reasons.

As far as adjustable combs are concerned, they're great if you fall into either or both of these two categories:

Firstly, if you have a gun that doesn't quite fit you. You'd be suprised how many off the shelf guns don't fit as they should. There's a great many competitors, including those that shoot to a decent standard, making do with a gun that's off as far as cast and pitch are concerned. Up to a point you can correct an ill-fitting gun through a simple comb adjustment. 

Secondly, if you are, for want of a better word, a true amateur and like to switch disciplines. An adjustable combed sporter will allow you to shoot skeet and domestic trap targets to a half reasonable standard.

If your plan is to excel at a discipline or have aspirations to reach the highest levels in the sport there's no real alternative to either a custom stock or one of the TSK/Evocomp alternatives.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

When buying my gun, I figured I'd just as well get the model with the adjustable comb. First of all I only have about a year of clay-shooting under my belt, and wouldn't pretend to know enough about gun fit to be able to distinguish between "just right" and "barely off". Mounting a gun of the rack in a shop is likely different than mounting it when shooting, so I felt more comfortable having the option to adjust the gun (rather than having to make do). Given that I'm still learning, I'd also favour the adjustable comb over a fixed one for reasons of being able to correct bad habits - say if my shooting posture was to be corrected, the gun might not fit as well and I could adjust it accordingly. The downside of course is that some (not me, of course) could 'tweak the gun' too often rather than correcting an underlying problem, or even so often as to never shoot it in the same set-up. So far I've adjusted it once since buying and to be fair I'm not sure whether it's made all the difference. (Plenty of blame falls on the shooter.) At least I don't have to wonder about whether it's right because it feels right and I could adjust if it didn't. 

 

[McTrucky]

Thanks both.  Makes sense that one size fits all will mean that an off the shelf gun will be perfect for very few.

I also fear the urge to constantly tweak something I can adjust.  And if the adjusters should only be used once - to set it up correctly and then leave alone, the better option would surely be to get the grinder out and have the stock shaped to fit.  That would kill the second hand value where as a properly fitted adjuster may enhance value.

What I think I'll do, in these days of social distancing (and gun shops being closed) is try repeated mounts with my eyes shut, and check if my mount is consistent, and if not, then work on that.  If it is consistent, and slightly off alignment, think I'll pay to have an adjuster fitted.  If it is consistent, and aligned, I think I will need to blame the cartridges .

 

[Lloyd]

Likewise, I’ve been shooting just less than a year. Of course that’s not the whole story because some people might have shot in a week what I’ve shot in the last 10 months. So for me it’s about 2,000 clays.

In that time, I’ve learned a few things... for myself. Essentially meaning what has worked for me doesn’t mean it will work for anyone else. I think most experienced shooters would agree, and I’ve certainly been told that numerous times, but for what it’s worth, I feel I’ve somewhat proven this to myself by trial and error.

I began with the idea that all gus had a comb too low for me. This harks back to my days as a teenager to young adult shooting rifles, where I had to shoot with my cheek off the comb. Easily achieved when target shooting as you have lots of time to get everything right and a fixed target.

During my first few lessons I shot B525, B725 and a Silver pigeon with 26 inch barrels and a 13 1/2” LoP. Back then, everything felt long and low with the 725 Feeling like a tonne weight. I liked the B525 and bought one to use, so I could get used to using just one gun.

I eventually tried out a Blaser F16 game with 28” barrels and immediately liked it; the low profile action felt somehow easier to point. So I went and bought myself a nearly new F16 Sporting for a decent price and kept it locked up at the grounds while I awaited my SGC (still waiting!)

I experimented with fitting a rubber comb raiser and removing the butt pad. Immediately I felt more comfortable, but after a dip in form (kept missing over the top) made meI wonder if the comb raiser wasn’t just a bit too high. So, I tinkered around with some 3D printed but pads and comb raisers and what I found was... it really made no difference to my scores.

What did make a difference however was listening to people like @Will Hewland and @Hamster plus lessons from Chris Biddlecombe at Honesberie and Ed Solomons at Sporting Targets and a couple of other chaps.

Ive learned different things from different people and this has made the biggest difference.

in summary, I now (until the lockdown that is) shoot without a comb raiser and without a butt pad giving me a LoP of 14” (Ed Solomons refers to it as the “midgets gun”... yeah, I’m a short arse)

my last shoot was with my son at Kelbrook just before the lockdown using borrowed ATA with 14 3/4” LoP and a pretty low comb. Honestly, it didn’t really make much difference. Perhaps I could be kind to myself and say it cost me a clay or two, but in truth, I probably cost me a clay or twenty.

Personally, I would say Ed Solomons for me has helped the most and whilst he isn’t the cheapest of coaches, he’s not the most expensive either, but he is excellent value for money and has freely given offline advice too.
 

A couple of hours with Ed or an adjustable comb? I’d take the lessons. You may just find Ed or other reputable coach helps you make the right decision on the stock modifications anyway

 

[Wonko the Sane]

It took me many years to finally come to terms with the fact that most of my machinations with the tools of a variety of hobbies was based on a false premise of some sort of economic savings when in fact a long term appraisal revealed the obvious truth.  I'll not recount my exploits but some of them were not (OK, most) attractive.  Making do and shade tree mods are not thrift in action when the associated costs of targets/carts/fees/travel whatever are added in.  If you lack the absolute faith that your equipment is the perfect tool for you then you either need some faith healing or a more appropriate tool.  Or just come to terms with mediocrity and get on with it

JMO of course

 

[westley]

My gun came with an adjustable comb. I have it at its lowest setting (flat) and it stays there. The only time I have moved it was to remove the stock to clean the action. Anyone who can not resist having a fiddle with the adjustable bits, maybe adjustable bits are not really for you. The allen key for mine stays in the gun case, at home.

 

[westley]

I saw a superb gun only this morning, it actually had a motorised adjustable comb that could be adjusted from a remote control fitted on the forend. This allowed you to raise the comb when shooting , say,  a teal and then quickly drop it for a rabbit or a low looper or similar. It is in the early stages yet, but it is hoped to have it perfected by the start of April, next year. Of course it is proving difficult to test fire the gun after any adjustments have been made, due to the current lockdown situation  !         

 

[ips]

I am confused, you say you shot well in the past and was a very credible A and AA so with the greatest respect i am confused as to why you dont know we're the problem lies and why you think you need a coach. If you are good enough to have been AA then surely you know if gun fits or not. Adjustable comb is not a new phenomenon i had my first one fitted by allen rhone in 1996 ish. You allude to the fact that you know that you over analyse crosses and presumably try to measure lead, now i am totally rubbish at sporting and not much better at game shooting but i have learned from 5 yrs of loading / minding / instructing on game days that folk who try to hard not to miss generally do. I have mentored many trap shooters in my 30 plus yrs of competitive trap and the same applies  trying to hard not to miss as opposed to trying to hit is fatal.

In conclusion if gun doesnt fit either change gun or get adjustable fitted.

Regards - ian

 

[westley]

By the time we can shoot again, we will ALL be rubbish at Sporting     !     

Due to total boredom and to preserve my Wife's sanity, I take myself off to my 'Man Cave'  to watch YouTube.  I have been watching some of the International trap shooting competitions. Most of the guns either have some form of comb adjustment or the full prosthetic stock thing. I would be wary of getting an adjustable stock of any form judging by some of the faces being pulled during the process of gun mounting .  They range from obvious pain to verging on a full blown gurning competition.  Is this a Trappies thing,  I ask   ?   

 

[Doctor Lecter]

love the adj  comb on my sporter , however set it up  shoot some dtl   balls of dust   remove Allen key to gun cabinet  sorted !!      ben husthwaite  fitting s gun to Alfie tibbles   a must watch on youtube       !!! 

 

[MartynB]

An adjustable comb can not always provide the cast you may need . They are magic for getting the drop at face right , however if you need a decent amount of cast you may find an uncomfortable ledge digging in when you try to get your face in the right place . 

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

I bet @k80ben would be able to do a gun fitting for you on his daily Instagram stories. Drop him a message and see what he says?

 

[McTrucky]

Wow thanks for all the input.  Much appreciated.

Regarding the comment that "surely being a good shooter in the past I should know if a gun fits or not", yes, fair point.  I do like to think I know roughly what I am doing.  But 30 years ago I ran a small shooting ground, and had a number of club guns, including a Beretta auto, a 686, a Miroku 7000 and 3800 trap (I think), a lamber plus others I can't remember.  And could shoot any of them well, didn't matter if they were RH and I am LH, or any aspect of fit.  So I kind of think I must have learned to make me fit the gun on each mount.

I quit shooting, but 20 years later (around 2009) started pistol shooting, and by 2014 was shooting at Glasgow commonwealth games, and for GB at world cups and the Granada World Championships.  This level of discipline forced an analytical approach to equipment and process which paid dividends. 

Then ten years later I start shotgun shooting again after failing to be selected for the Gold Coast commonwealth games and bought a 725 sporter and a 525 trap thinking I would pick up where I left off 30 years ago....  Wrong..

So in the last 30 years...

*Physically I am a different shape (I used to race moto-x so was relatively well built, but not so much any more).

*Pistol shooting forced right eye dominance, but I shoot LH with a shotgun.

*30 years ago I picked up any old gun and cartridge combo and won stuff without thinking.  But when pistol shooting that approach got me winning locally, but then it got serious and I mentally had to change gear.  And I can't help but bring some of this analytics to the shotgun shooting.

Sorry, just a bit of self indulgent back story there...  

So....  I will watch some of the YouTube films.  I will dry mount with eyes shut and see what is happening 'naturally'.   The instagram suggestion...  Maybe I'll find out what instagram is , and make a decision in a week or two about making any changes.

But if anyone has a scruffy 725 stock lying around, I would love to have a go at doing some mods myself.  (Became a bit of an expert at making pistol grips over the years, but like Wonko, function over form, so don't want to start hacking away at my shiny Browning).  I will keep my eyes on ebay for one.

 

[Lloyd]

@McTrucky Great back story. I’m an analytical type (product development engineer). Struggled a lot with keeping my brain out of the shot, (the interfering little b’stard!). Hopefully I’ve got that trained out with the help of aforementioned coaches. 

pre shot planning... means I do my analysis before shooting, visual pick up, hold point, kill point and finishing point (the usual for the experienced folks)

pre shot routine... no real quirks, just making sure what I planned isn’t wasted, visualising the shot, tracing the imaginary line I’m expecting to take with the gun.

soft focus on the visual pick up point (tip from Ed, made quite a bit of difference for me)

using my finger to point (helps me concentrate my eyes on the target)

changing the position of my hand to find greater comfort/movement 

relaxing... just taking it one clay at a time and not being concerned if I hit or miss or if I’m a good shot or a lousy one

finding a stance that works best (or just better) for me

leaving my gun, chokes, cartridges, gear the f’  alone (got there in the end.. I think)

in all of that, my gun fit primarily is just a part of being more comfortable and confident. Perhaps when I have shot 20,000 or 200,000 clays, these things might evolve?

I guess experienced shooters take these sort of things for granted? Or maybe with a pinch of salt?

for now, I’m content

how I’ll fair in three or six months time or more, who knows. I could be back to square one

 

[Will Hewland]

It really is something to sort with a coach as only some people will suffer with gun fit in the traditional sense of the gun not doing what it should, usually not shooting where they think they look. I shot a poorly fitting gun for years and it always shot where I looked, I just had to twist myself up to fit the gun. I’ve made many adjustments to guns over the years and all for making things easier and more natural. So an ill-fitting gun does different things to each of us. But gun fit is part of ALL the elements that our equipment (shells, glasses, clothing) brings and each of these should be all about the shooter being comfortable physically and mentally so only the clay is the focus. I think I said similar recently so apologies for repeating it but it’s critical to understand this IMO.

What I do know is that when my head isn’t there, the gun doesn’t feel nice to hold while other days it’s like part of my own self. Those days are when the good scores come. 

 

[westley]

Ah, now having revealed that you are an ex pistol shooter, I fear that we are "All Doomed"  !   My experience of serious pistol shooters is that they are ALL inherent 'fiddlers' and an adjustable comb is probably the worst possible thing that they could acquire. I have known them to beggar about with their gun between stands  ???  IF you fall into that bracket, I would NOT consider an adjustable ANYTHING  !        

 

[ColinD]

20yrs shooting Target rifle and still shooting, yes we are 'fiddlers', but after a while when you get it sorted you stop 'fiddling' and get more into the technigue side of it as it brings better results

My main problem was trying to stop my brain wanting to aim the gun at the clay, it's coming together now (6 months later) well it was until Covid19 raised it's ugly head

 

[El Spavo]

I bet @k80ben would be able to do a gun fitting for you on his daily Instagram stories. Drop him a message and see what he says?

Still waiting for a follow up reply from him when he landed in Ireland for something or other 5 months ago so don't hold your breath.