Anyone shoot NSSA Skeet ?

[Ray]

Any Forum members shoot NSSA Skeet on here, don't see much talk about it ?

 

[WelshKen]

Will be for one day in March . Wonder how much more difficult it is than National skeet?

 

[Guerini Guy]

Shot a lot of it in the past but it gets very expensive to do multiple gauges, especially when the wife shoots too, so been giving it a miss.

Still a NSSA member and might still do the odd 12g only, but wouldn't get hooked on it now.

 

[blaser f3]

None on here, they too occupied with their re-loads , i would imagine many are sat at home now with their copy of 'loaded' magazine held in one hand . 

 

[Ray]

Will be for one day in March . Wonder how much more difficult it is than National skeet?

Pretty much the same Ken apart from the speed and no shooting a pair in the middle.

Gets interesting when shooting them with 410

 

[Jan Powell]

Yes, I shoot it regularly. In fact it's replaced English Skeet for me now.

 

[Skeetfreak]

Ray,

I shot a bit of NSSA skeet a few years ago (2004, 2005, 2006) but only shot one 4 gun competition. My focus was ESK and the England team back then. I never really had the kit to do the job properly as i used a 32" Miroku 3800 (13mmm rib) for the 12 Gauge and then had a borrowed on long term loan 30" carrier barrel (8mm rib) using Kolar AAA tubes. The difference between the barrels felt huge and i could never really perform in the gauges.

Messing about with NSSA is not the way to go IMO and i never shot the scores i was capable of in any of the gauges with my PB's being:-

12 Gauge - 97

20 Gauge - 95

28 Gauge - 95

.410 Bore - 90

Doubles - 88

Since my return to shooting a few months ago i have been as i was before focussed on skeet. I started off by shooting my main focus ESK and the scores were doing OK for a return after 5 years or so break. It wasn't very long into shooting that i came across NSSA again and my mind began to shift focus towards the "American Game". I figured if i was going to do this then i would need the right kit and be a NSSA member again.

So on the 31st October i re-started my NSSA membership and also around that time treated myself to a second hand Krieghoff K80 that was a complete bargain. It was then taken to Chris Potter Guns were Dionne Rogers coupled with Steve Power at Briley did a fantastic job of kitting my K80 out with a match weighted Ultralight fitted tubeset for the three sub gauges.

Both took extreme care to ensure i got a product that will happily work with the UK steel headed ammo issue we have with tube sets over here.

So now i have the correct kit and have began to shoot NSSA skeet. It has been going well certainly in practice which is all of a sudden quite a bit of fun down at my local club as i shoot 100 targets with various practice routines either with one gauge or using a differing gauge each round. In competition it is still early days but i have already equalled my 12 Gauge PB and smashed my 28 Gauge PB within 7 registered shoots.

Interestingly since i got the right gear i have not shot a single ESK registered event and my thoughts i posted on here about if the higher speeds would give better target consistency seem to be right even in some of the horrible weather we have had this winter so far.

So for now my attention will be on the NSSA skeet in 2013 - the only downsides as correctly pointed out above are the cost of a 4 / 5 gun shoot with it being £40 per 100 targets competition in 2012 (hope they don't put it up). Plus the extra costs for carrying four types of cartridges and the kit expense.

The other frustration is the sheer lack of it in the UK..... Only 6 grounds currently hold registered NSSA - Northampton, Lakenheath, Dartford, Nottingham, Tadley, Oxney. With sadly as we know one of those looking like it will be stopping shooting soon which is a real shame.

Then there are only 3 "major" shoots where you can shoot all four gauges in one shoot, and a Ironman 400 target 12 Gauge event.

It would be good if we could see some other events alongside the 3 majors which enabled you too shoot all four gauges in a day for sensible money. Say 50 of each Gauge for example or say 2 gauges shot in a one day competition. Giving you 200 targets in a day and the ability to shoot all the gauges regular together as after all the focus of NSSA is the world skeet in Texas each September / October.

This leads me too the other scenario we don't have in the UK - Doubles under the lights (Sorry Todd) - in that the shoots off's in the World skeet take place in a Stadium field under floodlit conditions. I only know of three places in the UK where you can mimmick this making getting used to this impossible.

No doubt that NSSA has not taken off here in the UK and wether that's down to various reasons above - who knows, but it is a shame as at the minute i am enjoying it and would like to shoot more of it. Just need to convince one of my grounds local to me to hold more shoots or add a bit of variation to the standard - "Any Gauge" - registered events. Lakenheath in the past had held what they called "Mini Ironman" events which were 200 of the smaller gauges in one day. I enjoyed them and shot a few of them when i did some NSSA shooting back in the mid 2000's. No sign of them on their calendar this year though.

No doubt that NSSA is all about a certain image - T-Shirt and shorts, Shell Pouch, Ears and Eyes - and two/three days shooting in the sun - not exactly the reality of shooting NSSA in the UK :lol:

The good news is that most of the standard "any gauge" NSSA registered shoots in the UK are birds only so you can shoot registered targets for between £23-£28 per 100 so if you are not shooting the "majors" then registered events are reasonably priced IMO.

Plus the NSSA membership is only $40 per annum or lifetime member for $500 - which is good value IMO.

 

[blaser f3]

Skeetfreak i think the idea comps being held, shooting 50 in the various guages is a great idea , trouble is when shooting all the guages over a three day comp is the cost of enteries and cartridges is very high (aswell you know ) think last time louis shot it cost approx £350 ............ehh i only shot the 12 . Also you could shoot a 4 guage 50 target (i.e 200 target) in a day .....definitely a good idea ....should be looked into .

 

[Skeetfreak]

Will be for one day in March . Wonder how much more difficult it is than National skeet?

Ken,

It is just different - target speed increases but IMO it does not make any noticeable difference to leads. If your being that accurate then you will struggle anyway due to keep checking back to the gun. You just need to tweak your hold points and look points slightly - i would say constantly switching between ESK and NSSA can be done but isn't easy as i know when i shoot ESK practice at my local ground the ESK targets seem so slow. Trick here is the ability to throttle up your reaction times and have a bit more "oomph" when it comes to moving when you see that target with the NSSA stuff. If you shoot NSSA speed targets with the same approach as ESK you will come unstuck - you need to attack NSSA targets more.

The sequence is slightly different with no pair on station 4 and this then means you get a single from each house on station 8 with your option being low 8.

Shooting the doubles is more critical in terms of placing the break of your first target in the same place everytime meaning you are looking consistently for the second target. Todd will show you right in March. 

In reality the major difference is the addition of the gauges but if you have the right kit this isn't a huge one and providing you can learn to do nothing different with the gauges that you would with the 12 gauge then you'll do fine. This is where in the past I've struggled but i do not intend to this time - in fact at the minute my sub gauges are better than my 12.

Then there is how good the top guys are at this. I'll not name them but look at a couple of the top NSSA skeet shooters in the UK.

12 gauge - 1150 targets - 98.17%

20 gauge - 900 targets - 98.89%

28 gauge - 950 targets - 99.16%

.410 bore - 950 targets - 97.79%

Doubles - 800 targets - 97.13%

12 gauge - 1150 targets - 98.09%

20 gauge - 600 targets - 97.50%

28 gauge - 500 targets - 97.20%

.410 bore - 500 targets - 91.40%

Doubles - 500 targets - 96.60%

12 gauge - 1750 targets - 96.40%

20 gauge - 700 targets - 98.43%

28 gauge - 700 targets - 97.43%

.410 bore - 700 targets - 96.00%

Doubles - 700 targets - 94.43%

Now if you then stack this up against three big names in the USA (one of which is your clinic coach)

12 gauge - 1050 targets - 99.62%

20 gauge - 1000 targets - 100%

28 gauge - 1250 targets - 99.76%

.410 bore - 1450 targets - 99.38%

Doubles - 700 targets - 99.43%

12 gauge - 1050 targets - 99.52%

20 gauge - 1000 targets - 99.60%

28 gauge - 1050 targets - 99.62%

.410 bore - 1000 targets - 98.50%

Doubles - 900 targets - 98.33%

12 gauge - 1150 targets - 99.48%

20 gauge - 1100 targets - 99.55%

28 gauge - 1150 targets - 99.04%

.410 bore - 1150 targets - 98.17%

Doubles - 1100 targets - 98.45%

So it is the ability of the top guys to shoot consistently using all the gauges that sets them apart. No doubt that also the "sunshine image" of NSSA skeet helps as looking at the top Americans who shoot there all the time they mostly have a full 1% average increase over our top NSSA shots (who coincidently all travelled to the USA at least twice in 2012).

To answer your question i do not think it is more difficult than ESK - just different - but its like anything to get good you need to specialize to an extent.

 

[Skeetfreak]

Skeetfreak i think the idea comps being held, shooting 50 in the various guages is a great idea , trouble is when shooting all the guages over a three day comp is the cost of enteries and cartridges is very high (aswell you know ) think last time louis shot it cost approx £350 ............ehh i only shot the 12 . Also you could shoot a 4 guage 50 target (i.e 200 target) in a day .....definitely a good idea ....should be looked into .

Thanks - yes it is certainly a cost issue for the majors for many. To break it down for people who might not be aware:-

Friday Doubles - 100 targets - £40

Saturday 12 & 28 - 200 targets - £80

Sunday 20 & 410 - 200 targets - £80

So a total of £200 for a 500 target shoot then you have the various "options" to add on if you want to play those. These are kind of betting on yourself to shoot 25, 50, 75, 100's in certain gauges and rounds.

Then of course three day shoot often people will need hotels, food & drink, 4 lots of cartridges etc.

I think there are all sorts of options to ADD a different championship to the existing four there are.

Still operate a 3 day shoot (shoot off's Sunday) but

Run say 50 of each gauge for a 200 targets in one day (with no doubles)

Run say 25 of each gauge + 50 doubles for a 150 targets in one day

Only have HOA and HAA shoot off's on the Sunday evenings to help time wise. Maybe have shoot off qualifiers on each day so the top scores from each day for HOA and HAA shoot off to find the top shooter from day one, day two etc then go up against the Sunday winner for the overall HOA / HAA winner.

Sure the format would need some tweaking but the basis is there.

The other option is to have a two gauge championship added to the rota so we have a 12 & 28 championship - 200 targets / one day. Still held over 3 days to get entry numbers through with shoot offs on the Sunday again.

then do the same for 20 and .410 championship.

Also why not hold a specific "Doubles" championship where it is just NSSA doubles up for grabs.

To me the reason NSSA has not REALLY took off is the massive investment needed for three or four shoots a year. I think it would be worth trying for a season or two (at least) adding further shoots and seeing if the skeet shooters took to it. I know there was quite a bit of opposition when they reduced the three major 4 gun championships to 50 targets per gauge to help with costs and i wouldn't want to see a reduction either. I am saying maybe we look to expand on the current formula but with a cheaper option to help people get into NSSA skeet easier - especially shooting the small gauges.

 

[Ray]

I can certainly vouch for the cost as apart from the £200 for a 500 shot event you then have the cartridges about another £170 and this

does not take into account shoot off's if you get in them ?   :smile:

Hotels for 2 nights, travelling and the usual meal and drink out on the Friday & Sat night, so not much change if any out of £500 for the weekend. 

As for holding a specific Doubles Championship, the trouble with this is, that doubles is not a popular choice to shoot, you don't see most shooters who

do the whole 4 gauge event, even turn up for the doubles. 

As far as going over to America each year is concerned, which I have done for last 2 years and have booked this year up as well, the minimum cost to book

flights, Hotel, Car Hire, Insurance, Cartridges & Entry Fees over there is around £2,500  

This does not take into account Petrol, Food & Drink and the cost of shooting practice each day, also if you go to Bandera Gun Club (A Must) or a visit to

San Antonio Gun Club (Another Must) then the costs rise further. 

This year I have decided to add another week onto my trip and enter the Pre World Warm Up at San Antonio Gun Club which is a 500 shoot event the weekend

before the Mini & Main World shoots, I think 2 weeks out there is not long enough for me, so have added another week to the trip.  :smile:

 

[Skeetfreak]

Ray,

So maybe the costs issue is why we only have 4 "majors" a year and in reality the focus should be those four titles? Kinda like the Grand Slams in Tennis, The big Grand Tours in Cycling, Test Matches in Cricket etc etc.

Wonder if it is the fact that skeet shooters tend to mix up the various bodies / formats and championships within the discipline and we are shooting a "big" event each week near enough in the summer. In reality there are three bodies for skeet in the UK and that makes for a busy calendar and some thing has to give. This is where NSSA loses out i think due to not offering a "one day championship" option to get into the sport. All the other bodies you turn up shoot 100 targets and then shoot off - done in a day not many extra costs.

So for dedicated NSSA shooters then maybe the more structured approach to take would be to have the main four shoots as the focus and then shoot practice and "any gauge" events to keep fresh do your build up. 

This however doesn't encourage shooters to start on the NSSA route.

Onto Doubles.....

Trouble with the lack of interest in doubles is that it makes it really hard to achieve your 5 shoot target minimum for fixed classification within a season only shooting "any gauge" events. I have tried a few times to get a squad I'm shooting on to do a "any gauge doubles" but with no success so far. I was simply thinking of ways to have specific doubles events to make it easier to get to your 5 shoot classification.

Never done the World Skeet yet and it will barring a huge piece of luck on my behalf not happen in 2013 either. I have to on top of your costs add unpaid time off work as i do not get enough flexible holiday to cover it = unpaid :-( . Not an option this year - maybe next, time will tell.

 

[Guerini Guy]

I think the other problem with NSSA, particularly for those maybe wanting to get into it, is that even from your various posts shown above it can appear excruciatingly complicated.

I personally feel the best way to increase the numbers shooting it would be to really promote shooting events as a single gauge event. Most people wishing to migrate from ESK from time to time can simply and easily get stuck in to that and start to get a feel for the discipline. Once there and starting to understand how it all works, may then persuade some to take it further. Some may even think that you can only shoot it if you do all the gauges whereas, in fact, you can just shoot one or any combination of them.

Discussing it in the detail you have provided could, in effect, put some people off. But I still think, right now with the way people generally are hurting with money, the cost of full blown involvement will be the biggest killer to much growth in the discipline.

Having said that, I would not like to see it die out and wish it, and all those helping to promote it, every success in doing so

 

[WelshKen]

Wow, thanks for that guys.

I'm a bit shocked at the cost of shooting 'proper' NSSA skeet and with all the gear that's needed.

I don't think my street cleaners wage will stretch that far, but if I win the lottery, who knows.. ;-)

 

[Skeetfreak]

I think the other problem with NSSA, particularly for those maybe wanting to get into it, is that even from your various posts shown above it can appear excruciatingly complicated.

Discussing it in the detail you have provided could, in effect, put some people off. 

Guerini Guy,

You are totally right and it is all too easy to not see the beginning picture - my mistake (which is made worse by my only recently getting into NSSA myself).

For people thinking of trying NSSA skeet targets all they need to do is:-

i). Join NSSA - Link - https://www.nssa-nsca.com/Webforms/NSSAMbrNew/Default.aspx  (you want the one year regular membership)

wait till you get your membership number notification - takes up to 10 days.

ii). Use your normal 12 gauge shot gun that you would for any other skeet discipline. 

iii). Phone any of these six grounds - Tadley, Lakenheath, Nottingham, Dartford, Northampton, Oxney - and find out when they are holding registered NSSA "any gauge" shoots then book on.

iv). Turn up, pay your entry, and shoot NSSA 12 gauge events (or doubles if you desire).

It to begin with is really that simple.

There are little oddities such as the class card system etc, but once you are there any of the shooters who are experienced with NSSA will help you out and it isn't complicated at all.

If it helps i believe Northampton & Lakenheath have a permanent NSSA skeet field set up for practice but best phone to check.

 

[Ray]

Ray,

So maybe the costs issue is why we only have 4 "majors" a year and in reality the focus should be those four titles? Kinda like the Grand Slams in Tennis, The big Grand Tours in Cycling, Test Matches in Cricket etc etc.

So for dedicated NSSA shooters then maybe the more structured approach to take would be to have the main four shoots as the focus and then shoot practice and "any gauge" events to keep fresh do your build up. 

Never done the World Skeet yet and it will barring a huge piece of luck on my behalf not happen in 2013 either. I have to on top of your costs add unpaid time off work as i do not get enough flexible holiday to cover it = unpaid :-( . Not an option this year - maybe next, time will tell.

I'm not sure if your statements are true, the shooters I know, tend to shoot other disciplines, as well as the NSSA.  :smile:  

To be honest, apart from the "4 NSSA majors" I tend to stick to English skeet, not because of cost's I might add, too busy running & helping out with skeet at Dartford.

I tend to travel around the Country shooting skeet majors through personal choice, not for any other reasons.