Barrels in your loft?

[40UP]

Vigano said to us he transfers his consciousness out to the mouth of the trench..

Re the trick shot, because he knows the line of the last five targets of the round he can hold along the path of the clay and spot shoot it as in doubletrap. I've seen Ian Peel take the last target of a competition so casually that you'd say he shot it over his shoulder as he turned away.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

The shoot high/shoot low poi difference is BS.  If it takes 30 yds for the barrels to converge it will take another 30 for them to diverge to the same 2CM apart that they started !!!  Can you tell me that you shoot within 2cm of the exact center of the pattern and can tell when you use which barrel?

total rot, dudes - - worry about something important like which brand of deck shoe you should be wearing

 

[Hamster]

https://www.krieghoff.com/competition/k-80-trap-skeet-sporting/k-80-trap-special/

http://www.perazzi.com/site/en/competizione/Fossa%20olimpica%20e%20double%20trap

http://www.blaser-usa.com/index.php?id=388&L=1

 

[Darkside]

Hammy, you ain't going to shoot OT with a specialist high rib DT gun!!! Get a grip!!! Have you ever shot OT Hamster?

 

[Dug]

Thanks to everyone for their replies, I don't disagree with any of the comments made, but the main gist of my query remains unanswered. I hoped there would be more discussion on my bugbear that manufacturers (of non-adjustable shotguns) do not advertise the design setup of their barrels relative to the rib, in contrast with the extensive information available on their stocks' dimensions.

Hamster put it best:

"I also believe POI (all else being equal) is what causes one man to suddenly pick up a gun and find he can shoot it really well, whereas a seemingly similar looking sight picture with another gun produces less favourable results."

Wouldn't it be nice to have some indication of likely POI when contemplating a new gun, rather than relying on trial and error as is the current fallback situation?

 

[ips]

This is deep even for me.

 

[Darkside]

Thanks to everyone for their replies, I don't disagree with any of the comments made, but the main gist of my query remains unanswered. I hoped there would be more discussion on my bugbear that manufacturers (of non-adjustable shotguns) do not advertise the design setup of their barrels relative to the rib, in contrast with the extensive information available on their stocks' dimensions.

Hamster put it best:

"I also believe POI (all else being equal) is what causes one man to suddenly pick up a gun and find he can shoot it really well, whereas a seemingly similar looking sight picture with another gun produces less favourable results."

Wouldn't it be nice to have some indication of likely POI when contemplating a new gun, rather than relying on trial and error as is the current fallback situation?

You are confusing yourself with bullsh*t now!!!

 

[Hamster]

Hammy, you ain't going to shoot OT with a specialist high rib DT gun!!! Get a grip!!! Have you ever shot OT Hamster?

Can't be 100% sure, just showing that POI isn't quite as rot as Wonko seems to think, it has its applications.

Have you ever shot Greenfields, Horne, Southdown, Willow, Detling, Hornet, JJ's, Keston, etc, have you ever even met me ? No ? You seem to know what I can or can't hit though. Get a grip, people have different views, it's not personal. 

Keep calm and remember I was shooting shot guns before you could hold a slab of shells.  :taunt:   :lol:

ps. why is it that every thread with you in it has to include so many bullsh*t references ? 

 

[ips]

In an attempt to defuse the situation I am unclear what the question is ?

 

[Hamster]

Thanks to everyone for their replies, I don't disagree with any of the comments made, but the main gist of my query remains unanswered. I hoped there would be more discussion on my bugbear that manufacturers (of non-adjustable shotguns) do not advertise the design setup of their barrels relative to the rib, in contrast with the extensive information available on their stocks' dimensions.

Hamster put it best:

"I also believe POI (all else being equal) is what causes one man to suddenly pick up a gun and find he can shoot it really well, whereas a seemingly similar looking sight picture with another gun produces less favourable results."

Wouldn't it be nice to have some indication of likely POI when contemplating a new gun, rather than relying on trial and error as is the current fallback situation?

To be fair Dug they do, in a roundabout kind of way. Most tend to say their guns are set up 60/40 which seems to suffice for the vast majority of applications, Trap games are kind of specialist so you just need to dig deep and do your own experimentation.

 

[Dug]

Vigano said to us he transfers his consciousness out to the mouth of the trench..

Re the trick shot, because he knows the line of the last five targets of the round he can hold along the path of the clay and spot shoot it as in doubletrap. I've seen Ian Peel take the last target of a competition so casually that you'd say he shot it over his shoulder as he turned away.

It has been my privilege to witness both Vigano and Ian Peel in action at OT, and I have tried to incorporate what I witnessed into my own shooting. RV won the British Open at East Yorkshire one year - I watched his method of mounting, then holding absolutely steady for 1-2 seconds before calling and then smoking his target. I have tried to emulate this technique ever since. I watched Ian Peel shoot an apparently disastrous 16 in failing light during the first day of a 200 target BICTSF (may have been BIB back then, mind you) event at Loch Ness Gun Club many years ago, then going on to win the shoot with a relentless comeback over the second day. Won't forget that anytime soon.

 

[Dug]

In an attempt to defuse the situation I am unclear what the question is ?

I simply want to know the geometry of different manufacturers' trap barrels in relation to their ribs.

 

[Darkside]

Have you ever shot Greenfields, Horne, Southdown, Willow, Detling, Hornet, JJ's, Keston, etc, have you ever even met me ? No ? You seem to know what I can or can't hit though. Get a grip, people have different views, it's not personal.

Is that all the grounds you shoot??? Don't travel much...do you!!!

 

[Dug]

To be fair Dug they do, in a roundabout kind of way. Most tend to say their guns are set up 60/40 which seems to suffice for the vast majority of applications, Trap games are kind of specialist so you just need to dig deep and do your own experimentation.

I think it's a total cop-out for a manufacturer to state 60/40 as the POI, because of course every trap gun produces this, at some distance. If I was in the market for a new DTL gun, I might look for a gun designed to produce that POI at 25 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 30 yards with the top barrel. If I was in the market for a new OT gun however, I would look for a new gun producing that POI at 35 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 40 yards with the top barrel. 

Nice to dream.

 

[ips]

I simply want to know the geometry of different manufacturers' trap barrels in relation to their ribs.

I kind of get your point however I believe many other dynamics come into play therefore poi is in many ways irrelevant. As far as I know most trap guns are 60 - 40 however some such as DT10 X trap are higher due to the tapered to muzzle rib. I had one for a while and could not get it to work so on that basis as I type I now get your point.

 

[Darkside]

I think it's a total cop-out for a manufacturer to state 60/40 as the POI, because of course every trap gun produces this, at some distance. If I was in the market for a new DTL gun, I might look for a gun designed to produce that POI at 25 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 30 yards with the top barrel. If I was in the market for a new OT gun however, I would look for a new gun producing that POI at 35 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 40 yards with the top barrel.

What do you mean, "at some point", it doesn't work like that!!! You are thinking like a rifle shooter again...A SHOTGUN IS NOT A RIFLE!!! You sound like the perfect customer for snake oil...snake oil for sale, £3,000 a bottle...yours for only £2,999
p.s. The snake oil deal is so good I had to post it twice

 

[jwpzx9r]

I think you are over egging this a bit the relationship between the rib and the barrels will only make a difference between one gun to the other until you reclaim your sight picture. I handed my own gun to a fellow shooter a couple of weeks ago. He shoots a half high Kreighoff gun but it malfunctioned would not open properly. I shot a flat rib Perazzi same barrel length and similar LOP. It took him about three misses to regain enough sight picture to hit a reasonable number of the remaining targets. It is a question of knowing what you are doing really. As for the converging point for the barrels at 30m causing misses below and above... sorry I don't believe that.

 

[Dug]

What do you mean, "at some point", it doesn't work like that!!! You are thinking like a rifle shooter again...A SHOTGUN IS NOT A RIFLE!!! You sound like the perfect customer for snake oil...snake oil for sale, £3,000 a bottle...yours for only £2,999

Ah, now I get it, you live in gravity-free Glasgow. You sound like the perfect SNP supporter, high on hopeless dreams of never being brought down to earth.

 

[ips]

And were off

 

[Rosso]

He shoots a half high Kreighoff gun but it malfunctioned would not open properly.

If a K malfunctions including trigger jammed / gun will not open.

Push the trigger blade forwards towards fore end, it will reset it.