Barrels in your loft?

[Hamster]

I think it's a total cop-out for a manufacturer to state 60/40 as the POI, because of course every trap gun produces this, at some distance. If I was in the market for a new DTL gun, I might look for a gun designed to produce that POI at 25 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 30 yards with the top barrel. If I was in the market for a new OT gun however, I would look for a new gun producing that POI at 35 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 40 yards with the top barrel. 

Nice to dream.

Well yes and no, remember Trap constitutes a very tiny market segment so it's not realistic to expect off the shelf guns being supplied with minute POI variations to suit individuals, I dare say that would be hard to pull off even for a custom job but as seen on my earlier links some do offer guns with the facility to make adjustments. 

 

[ips]

Ooh adjustment. Not for me I am a fiddler

 

[ips]

Kind of agree with John. You usually adapt to a guns poi. The only one I struggled to adapt to was the DT10 X.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Seemed to be some sort of ejector issue he had the forend off it three times in as many targets... then I offered him my gun to get him through the next twenty or so. Anyway I could care less it was to demonstrate a point about the difference from one gun to another and how a good shot will take less time than you would expect to get there.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Kind of agree with John. You usually adapt to a guns poi. The only one I struggled to adapt to was the DT10 X.

The shooter in question is a good shot and a club coach. I was really surprised how quickly he managed to get it working for him!

 

[Darkside]

Ah, now I get it, you live in gravity-free Glasgow. You sound like the perfect SNP supporter, high on hopeless dreams of never being brought down to earth.

Dream on, it's you Teuchters and the undesirable element of Glasgow that are taken in by left wing, almost communist crap that the SNP spout!!

 

[Darkside]

Well yes and no, remember Trap constitutes an very tiny market segment...

Spoken like a true 'little Englander'...trap is only a tiny segment in England, not most of the rest of the world!!! The amount of trap shooters just in Italy and France will be massively more than you think...

 

[ips]

James has a point proper trap is niche in UK compared to sporting BUT in Italy it is massive. Also them there USA dudes have that ATA malarkey which is a sort of trap thing.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Trap IS THE DISCIPLINE down here in France !

 

[Darkside]

...and France is such a tiny country with a tiny rural population!?!?

 

[jwpzx9r]

...and France is such a tiny country with a tiny rural population!?!?

Yes and even tiny villages, by UK standards, have a trap shooting club The club I shoot at has an OT and a UT plus a sporting thingy parcours? anyway I have only every seen four people shoot that sporting setup. However another club I shoot at does some sort of sporting that involve using I think about 6 or maybe 7 traps and they shot from cages and it all take place in the area occupied by a UT setup no idea what its called but I do think some people shoot sporting type disciplines but nothing like the numbers who shoot Trap though.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

The shoot high/shoot low poi difference is BS.  If it takes 30 yds for the barrels to converge it will take another 30 for them to diverge to the same 2CM apart that they started !!!  Can you tell me that you shoot within 2cm of the exact center of the pattern and can tell when you use which barrel?

total rot, dudes - - worry about something important like which brand of deck shoe you should be wearing

The bold stuff above is the rot part.  

I think it's a total cop-out for a manufacturer to state 60/40 as the POI, because of course every trap gun produces this, at some distance.  no it doesn't   If I was in the market for a new DTL gun, I might look for a gun designed to produce that POI at 25 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 30 yards with the top barrel. If I was in the market for a new OT gun however, I would look for a new gun producing that POI at 35 yards with the bottom barrel, and say 40 yards with the top barrel.   that doesn't happen - it is a dream

Nice to dream.

 

[Hamster]

Spoken like a true 'little Englander'...trap is only a tiny segment in England, not most of the rest of the world!!! The amount of trap shooters just in Italy and France will be massively more than you think...

On reflection you do have a point, it is a tiny segment compared to other disciplines. In some countries such as America and Italy it is much much bigger than here. However, if you study different manufacturers catalogues and web sites it is obvious Trap ware is a small part of their Competition inventory. The point I was trying to make was that adjustable POI guns are rare but available if you look.

 

[ips]

Adjustable POI, I don't like the sound of that

 

[jwpzx9r]

" if you study different manufacturers catalogues and web sites it is obvious Trap ware is a small part of their Competition inventory. "

I really think it depends which manufacturers catalogue you look at Perazzi have a huge collection of different trap guns as do Beretta. I actually don't know what your point is to be honest. Trap shooting is a popular shotgun game in France in the area I live in there are some 45 trap shooting clubs within a 2hr drive of my house and numerous single trap clubs that are not registered.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Adjustable POI, I don't like the sound of that

I like to think I am not stupid but to me every shot gun has a different POI in different hands and one learns where to point it? All this POI adjustment is just to configure the gun to make it produce a sight picture you are comfortable with. When I moved from my Browning to the Perazzi they were different, the P showed a huge amount more rib ... I just learned to shoot it took me about two or three hundred cartridges to nail down my previous scores and I have moved on up from there... because I am learning.

I witnessed a, for me at least, amazing thing. One of the guys at the club uses a Perazzi mx2005. One day another shooter visited the club, he shoots a flat rib mx2000. He asked the owner of the 2005 if he could try it... he shot a 24 at UT. I could not believe that anybody could go from a flat rib to a 50mm high rib and make such a score. He was well impressed but still shoots his 2000!

 

[ips]

I like to think I am not stupid but to me every shot gun has a different POI in different hands and one learns where to point it?

Totally agree John

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Every shotgun does have a POI unique to the shooter's physiognomy.   BUT adapting to the gun is a not on the board for me.  I adjust the gun (stock) to shoot where I want it to.  Several different guns, a variety of rib heights and tapers but they ALL shoot to the same place for me cuz I set the stocks to make them do that.

Do you honestly think world class  shooters just take the gun given them and make do with it???  Why is there a term "gunfitting" ?

just a thot and that's all I'm gonna say   reved:

 

[jwpzx9r]

I do agree with what you say to some extent Charlie. But I am talking about guns that are nearly a fit and in many ways that is how the mftrs get a way with a " one gun suits the lot" type thing. I am a total novice in real terms but the other month I was shooting and a very good  shooter was complaining that, for some reason thought he could see too much rib. Long story short a very experienced shooter and amateur stocker changed the pitch of his gun between rounds using a bit of cartridge box and told him he would sort it properly during the week... shot 96ex100 UT with it. What I find strange about this particular guy is he is a regular winner of competitions!... you would have thought he would have had that sorted out? So you are right by all means make the small changes to make it better. I have thought of the changes needed to my gun to start really hitting some consistent high scores... involves somehow getting Michael Diamond behind the gun !

 

[ips]

Hamster's comment about standard guns' barrels converging at 30 yards hits the nail on the head. If this is true, it's no wonder OT targets are missed high with the first barrel and low with the second. Any thoughts on the average distance at which OT targets are hit, especially with second barrels?

Here is a thought re converging shot pattern.

Longthorne gun barells are made from a single block of steal. Are the barrels bored out equidistant or are they bored so that patern converges at some point.

Same goes for any other mfr who uses same technique.

Discus.