Barrels in your loft?

[no.1topdog]

Here is a thought re converging shot pattern.

Longthorne gun barells are made from a single block of steal. Are the barrels bored out equidistant or are they bored so that patern converges at some point.

Same goes for any other mfr who uses same technique.

Discus.

I would be very surprised if they were bored at anything other than completely parallel (but I don't know). Over the length of the billet, and with the thickness of the finished barrels, it would have to be a bit of a "Heath Robinson" attempt at drilling square to make any real, practical difference to pattern placement, over normal shotgun range.

Unless, of course, you are particularly analytical, pedantic, or a Trap Shooter, it really should be of no concern. After all, we have pattern spread, we're not firing a "tack driver" of a single projectile.

Disclaimer - Trap Shooters, no offense intended. (No Sporting shooters were harmed during this text).   :biggrin:

 

[ips]

I think from Web site they are parralel so does this throw anything into the equation re poi and or converging shot pattern.

Discuss

 

[Dug]

Here is a thought re converging shot pattern.

Longthorne gun barells are made from a single block of steal. Are the barrels bored out equidistant or are they bored so that patern converges at some point.

Same goes for any other mfr who uses same technique.

Discus.

Hurray! Now we're getting somewhere. 

I am enjoying very much the evolution of this discussion, having almost given up the hope of my question being taken seriously.

 

[Dug]

Extract from Longthorne's website below:

"Another significant benefit with Longthorne barrels is that they are parallel and, unlike converging barrels which often shoot apart after the point of convergence, our barrels ensure a consistent point of aim/point of impact."

Further discussion welcomed.

p.s. Would Longthorne take my old Miroku as a trade-in?

 

[ips]

Dug

So on the basis that none converging barrels is a beneficial thing then why do mainstream mfrs make converging . Or do they ?

 

[Dug]

Dug

So on the basis that none converging barrels is a beneficial thing then why do mainstream mfrs make converging . Or do they ?

That was kinda my question at the start of all this!

 

[ips]

Indeed it was dug it just took a while

Seems to me that parallel barrels make more sense as Poi from top barrel would be a mere 1" higher than bottom barrel. Also considering most trap targets are prob missed under then a converging at 30 m would be a disadvantage for second barrel at 50m .

This is now becoming most interesting.

 

[Darkside]

Hurray! Now we're getting somewhere.

I am enjoying very much the evolution of this discussion, having almost given up the hope of my question being taken seriously.

IPS is taking the piss out of you!!! The reason your question has not "been taken seriously", is because you are wrong to think people miss OT (or any other clays) because their gun ident 'zeroed' to a distance specific POI!!! They miss because they are off line or moving the gun too fast or moving the gun too slow or stopping the gun or their timing is off or they don't have their face on the stock or their gun doesn't shoot where they are looking or they have some other basic wrong or even they just miss...but not because the clay is at distance (a) and the gun has a POI of distance ( B) ...that idea is total bollocks!!!

 

[Will Hewland]

While James is perhaps not about to win an award for sugaring the pill (again), he is right on the money.

 

[ips]

I understand dugs reason for the debate and from a technical aspect it is most interesting however James does have a valid point. I would agree that very few trap targets are missed as a direct result of poi between barrels being a couple if inches different. As stated earlier imo whatever the poi (within reason) you will adapt very quickly as many other aspects of the shot dynamics (most of which James mensions) are more important.

Having said that if converging or indeed none converging is irelevant then why do mfrs choose one or the other and in some cases use it as a usp. Maybe James earlier snake oil reference (although tongue in cheek) is not far from the truth.

 

[ips]

While James is perhaps not about to win an award for sugaring the pill (again), he is right on the money.

Yes I too have noticed over the years that James does prefer the direct approach

 

[ips]

To confuse matters further I wonder what the poi is on the high rib trap gun Longthorne made. Pretty high and presumably still with parralel barrels ?

 

[jwpzx9r]

If you go to Perazzi and tell them you want a gun that shoots round corners they will make you one

Look lets make a very long story short nobody misses OT targets below and above because of the alignment of their barrels and everybody knows that ( well said James). Re the Longthorne  guns if the best shotgun makers in the world have for many years made their guns with the barrels configured the way they are... and could very easily make them parallel if they so chose to ... who is right and who is wrong? I would say this though I do not think it would be difficult for Longthorne to machine their barrels converging there is no reason at all for them not to.

 

[Hamster]

While James is perhaps not about to win an award for sugaring the pill (again), he is right on the money.

He isn't, he is so immersed in himself and the absolute basics applicable to what he shoots that he hasn't even comprehended the question :

I would like to know how the bottom barrel is designed to throw the shot relative to the top barrel, and relative to the rib. Different disciplines involve shooting targets at different ranges, so it seems to me a gun suited to DTL distances will be less than ideal for OT, for example.

Now, nobody is seriously suggesting that POI is a serious set back for the vast majority of us, I made this clear at the start, I also absolutely agree that there are just way too many other far more plausible causes for misses, especially where beginners are concerned but there is absolutely no question that in certain situations where 2 targets are shot nearaskissmyass in the same foot square of sky,     and where the minutiae of technique and keeping your head on the stock (for crying out loud) are a total given. Just so we're clear, this may mean for example being tuned in to kill the first bird as a riser at X distance and the second as a slower riser/level/or even dropping. Now how can you be so sure that having the choice of altering either POI wouldn't be beneficial to some people ?

In these situations it has to be useful (which is why they make these guns) to have the ability to dial in what works for you. Trap disciplines as we know are almost always won or lost on single targets or even points and what's at stake isn't £80 but national and international medals.

 

[Will Hewland]

Yes, technically correct, but it's all a bit like saying that 3/8 choke is a disadvantage over 1/4 choke at 25.7 yards or whatever. The useable reality is not worth worrying about.

 

[Darkside]

When was the last time you shot OT Hamster?

 

[Hamster]

When was the last time you shot OT Hamster?

It isn't about that, it is about potential solutions. If we all had to be participating experts on all matters before offering an opinion then the world would be a silent place, which brings us round to enquiring as to your particular set of qualifications on the subject ?

 

[Darkside]

I ask again Hamster, when was the last time you shot OT?

 

[Hamster]

Yes, technically correct, but it's all a bit like saying that 3/8 choke is a disadvantage over 1/4 choke at 25.7 yards or whatever. The useable reality is not worth worrying about.

Not entirely, a choke (spread) has to cope with a wide variety of ranges, target types and orientations, human error alone negates any perceived advantage/disadvantage between chokes of very close denominations. The type of application these guns are designed for is a very narrow window of opportunity. 

 

[Will Hewland]

As you say, not entirely. All I am saying is that this poi quest is chasing an unusable small gain, dwarfed by other factors. Sure, get it right if you can be bothered. It won't HURT, but hardly the key to great success. It's like spending an hour fiddling with a race car to get the corner weights all to within a kilo of perfect. Makes you feel good in the workshop.