Beretta 686 barrel problem

[PhilFedUp]

My Silver Pigeon barrels appear to be sliding out of the monobloc. Beretta's view is '20 year old gun. We can fix it in Italy but at your expense. Something like £700 and nine months.' Am I unreasonable in thinking that it shouldn't do that? The image shows the problem.

 

[Bavarian]

What does the Monobloc Look like?

 

[vmax1010]

No it shouldn't do that, you might be lucky to get a proper gunsmith to fix it but I doubt it, as it's a 20 years old I think you will have to prepare yourself that it's a scraper

 

[MartynB]

Phone up some proper working gunsmiths , Elderkins , Midland Gun , Wiseman’s etc . The barrels are probably hard soldered into the block , so taking them out probably means that the top and side ribs need relaying as well . The gun will also need re-proofing . After all that you’re probably going to want the barrels re blacking too . Obviously before you commit to that work you’ve got to be honest in an assessment of what other work the gun needs after 20 years ( service , action off face etc ) at a certain point you might be better off putting the cash towards replacing it , and selling the wood work on e-bay

 

[Les53]

It most definitely should not do that at any age! To be honest I’ve never seen anything like that and I’ve been shooting shotguns for several decades.
I would imagine a proper gunsmith could sort it or get it sorted. Personally I would say have a word with Pat Croft, he did a job for me that some others said was not possible. Message me if you need his number.
But whoever does it, I doubt if it will be a cheap job.

 

[Freddypip]

Phil - Your earlier thread is here - https://www.shootclayforum.com/threads/its-not-supposed-to-look-like-this.69338/.

No harm in starting a new one but some other comments were made on it.

 

[PhilFedUp]

What does the Monobloc Look like?

Hi. The monobloc doesn't look the least bit unusual. The barrels are not 'off the face' either. It's not been subjected to heavy use.

 

[PhilFedUp]

No it shouldn't do that, you might be lucky to get a proper gunsmith to fix it but I doubt it, as it's a 20 years old I think you will have to prepare yourself that it's a scraper

As things are, I'm very much expecting that it won't be good news, but my local gunsmith has described how it's assembled, and what's needed to get it to bits and back together. Interestingly, he's got another, similar model, 'in the back'. another gunsmith told me he's seen three others in about 30 years. He estimated it might be about half £££ of what Beretta quoted, including re-proofing and steel shot proof. Granted, as another local gunsmith told me 'you always get them back, but sometimes they won't go back together!'
There's no doubt that it's a manufacturing fault and as such, if it was me, and I was Beretta, I wouldn't want it 'out there' and I'd want it back in the fold, and replaced. Otherwise I might go round telling people! The irritating thing is that between us, we've got 4 686s; two 12 bore and two 20 bore. I'm sure that they're not going to do the same, but it leaves a nasty taste.

 

[Bavarian]

Hi. The monobloc doesn't look the least bit unusual. The barrels are not 'off the face' either. It's not been subjected to heavy use.

Hm. I´ve never seen a gun with something like this. I know guns where the barrel soldering was weak and broke but never a seperation from
the Block.
A local ground uses ten 686 for teaching courses almost every day for over 7 years with very little maintenance and even the monobloc does not show
these signs of use like yours in the picture. Perhaps there is something gone wrong with heat treatment that it has not the strength it should have?

 

[Freddypip]

Phil. I would be interested to know if there is a similar gap elsewhere on the mono-block - perhaps at the breach face or within the chamber.

 

[Jonny English]

My father had one do the same in the early 90's on a 686. It wasn't as old as yours though at the time, maybe 5 years old then Beretta sent him a fresh gun, even upgraded him from 28" to 30" as well.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

First time seeing this. Weird one, as I've seen a share of Berettas living hard lives but the barrels leaving the monoblock? I wonder how that happens. I can only imagine the soldering being really sub par, but giving way at both barrel and chamber end is pretty stunning. Can you show us pictures looking down the chambers?

Even google is hard pressed for similar instances, but I found this thread from 2019 : Beretta 686 monoblock issue which shows a similar problem. The reaction by a gunsmith in the thread is interesting:

The correct method for repairing this issue is to completely pull the ribs, pull the barrels out, tin with new solder/flux, sweat tubes back into the monoblock ensuring the ejector cuts line up, relay the ribs, polish, then blue. A costly job($3000ish) that surpasses the value of the gun. Briley sends me this type of work.

Ian's use of loctite would work if you could get the barrels out of the monoblock still together, clean off the solder in the monoblock and barrel stubs, then stab back in with loctite. The issue is the holes are not bored parallel, rather coming closer together. That is the reason the barrels stopped where they did, and didn't continue coming out. So then you're still left pulling the ribs...

The issue I'm having with Beretta is a failure like this is 100% due to manufacture defect and cannot be owner induced. A soldered monolock/barrel WILL NEVER FAIL if done correctly.

At that rate, the "700-ish" quote from Beretta isn't bad at all. But in reality I'd look at replacing the barrels or the gun in its entirety and spend the equivalent or less for a gun with less 'experience'.

 

[ole.DK]

My Silver Pigeon barrels appear to be sliding out of the monobloc. Beretta's view is '20 year old gun. We can fix it in Italy but at your expense. Something like £700 and nine months.' Am I unreasonable in thinking that it shouldn't do that? The image shows the problem.View attachment 10300

 

[ole.DK]

If it has been shot really hot, the solders can melt, I have seen a Beretta 682 from Mexico where the barrels had slipped about 2cm from the monobloc due to heat.
I've shot a 682 so hot myself that it sweated the solder from the monoblock, luckily nothing happened except I couldn't close it until it was removed, after that I was careful not to shoot it hot.
If it is not due to heat, it indicates bad soldering from the factory.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Assuming the use of proper high-temp silver solder, the melting point would be in the high 700 degrees Celsius, if not higher. If I was to shoot my barrels that hot, I'd worry about the forend catching fire, as google tells me that wood ignites at around 300 degrees Celsius.

I don't want to doubt your personal experience so I'll chalk that up to a batch of poor (and soft) solder having been used. Not the way it should be, that's for sure.

 

[PhilFedUp]

I suspect that the grease monkeys in Italy didn't do a very good soldering job at the outset. Quite why they're happy for us to know about this, recognising it's a manufacturing fault that should never, ever happen, defeats me. Then again, I had several FIATs before this, and should have learned my lesson.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

It took me a while to realise you mean a car manufacturer from Torino, Italy. I was scratching my head: Failure to Initiate Acceptable Treatment of complaints?

 

[spartina]

I seem to remember Xtrema mk2s barrels unscrewing nothing related to the OP apart from brand.
I do wish I'd never passed on my mk1Xtrema at times, nothing phased it, not even being used as a "paddle" to get me out of a mussel bank on an incoming high tide!
Sorry about the ot stuff

Well it wasn't phased I sure was, next action would have been firing off my shells 10 seconds apartr!

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I suspect that the grease monkeys in Italy didn't do a very good soldering job at the outset. Quite why they're happy for us to know about this, recognising it's a manufacturing fault that should never, ever happen, defeats me. Then again, I had several FIATs before this, and should have learned my lesson.

Any news on resolution? Re-reading this, I am still wondering what the breach face looks like, as there has to be a gap somewhere given that the barrels have come loose. I assume the barrels slide back in when assembling the gun, given that the forend attaches to the barrels. As for Beretta not covering this 'under warranty' I am not really surprised. If I took a car back in after twenty years I doubt there's much that the manufacturer would not ascribe to usage.