Best Ear protection? In ear or muff?

[John Griff]

Been looking around at a lot of ear protection, usual disposable soft foam, electronic muff, in ear custom etc.

any suggestions on what gives the highest NRR for mainly sporting clays please? Read about muffs being compromised with glasses, then muffs are best for overall protection until the gun stock moves them etc but in ear moulds are more comfortable, but then is it passive or active etc. 

What do you all use and recommend, or have tried and didn’t perform well enough?

 

[westley]

I can, with all honesty, state that I have probably had a lot of muffs over my ears, in the 55 + years that I have been shooting  !  As I am now as deaf as the proverbial doorpost, I do not think they protected my hearing in any way, shape or form. I would add that they probably had a detrimental effect on my eyesight too  !  Although muffs have put a smile on my face on most occasions, I now, at 70 plus, tend to stick with ear plugs, albeit it electronic ones.  The main advantage of the electronic plugs, coupled with my deafness, is that I can turn OFF the  electronic enhancement as and when required. This can be a great advantage if I am in the company of one of the owners of the aforementioned muffs  !

So, to sum up, steer clear of muffs if you value your eyesight.  (you rightly pointed out the "compromised with glasses" fact).  If you can stand muffs on your ears, especially during hot weather, then I would look at someone called Howard Leight, he seems to have it sussed at a reasonable price.

The 'in ear' are the type that I would buy, although I have had problems with my Cens electrics, I have never had any issues with my 25 years old Emtech's. The Cens have never been right from day 1, BUT that may be due to having all those muffs, many, many years ago.     :thankyou:

 

[MartynB]

The highest  noise reduction is muffs worn over plugs .  For years I’ve been using custom moulded silicon ear plugs on their own they have a small filtered “ canal “ in them .  .  They work very well , you can hear enough and they are great for clays . Strangely today I just took delivery of my Xmas present early . ( I suspect I’ll never see the promised family contributions ! ) .  I’ve just got a set of electronic defenders with built in amplification , as on a game shoot last weekend  I struggled to hear the whistle when I used my plugs .  The ear defenders I got are top spec and have  have gel seals so fit nicely even with specs .  

 

[Paul120]

Ear muffs on a game shoot ? What what!!

Seriously  though, I was using my usual ear defenders i use for clays when rifle shooting indoors. Forgot them and used some foam plugs. I though the 25p plugs were more effective and I wasn't having to re adjust to keep them from touching the stock.  

 

[balltrap]

I can, with all honesty, state that I have probably had a lot of muffs over my ears, in the 55 + years that I have been shooting  !  As I am now as deaf as the proverbial doorpost, I do not think they protected my hearing in any way, shape or form. I would add that they probably had a detrimental effect on my eyesight too  !  Although muffs have put a smile on my face on most occasions, I now, at 70 plus, tend to stick with ear plugs, albeit it electronic ones.  The main advantage of the electronic plugs, coupled with my deafness, is that I can turn OFF the  electronic enhancement as and when required. This can be a great advantage if I am in the company of one of the owners of the aforementioned muffs  !

So, to sum up, steer clear of muffs if you value your eyesight.  (you rightly pointed out the "compromised with glasses" fact).  If you can stand muffs on your ears, especially during hot weather, then I would look at someone called Howard Leight, he seems to have it sussed at a reasonable price.

The 'in ear' are the type that I would buy, although I have had problems with my Cens electrics, I have never had any issues with my 25 years old Emtech's. The Cens have never been right from day 1, BUT that may be due to having all those muffs, many, many years ago.     :thankyou:

What did you say !.........you have never had a wet MUFF !  :dontknow:

 

[John Griff]

I can, with all honesty, state that I have probably had a lot of muffs over my ears, in the 55 + years that I have been shooting  !  As I am now as deaf as the proverbial doorpost, I do not think they protected my hearing in any way, shape or form. I would add that they probably had a detrimental effect on my eyesight too  !  Although muffs have put a smile on my face on most occasions, I now, at 70 plus, tend to stick with ear plugs, albeit it electronic ones.  The main advantage of the electronic plugs, coupled with my deafness, is that I can turn OFF the  electronic enhancement as and when required. This can be a great advantage if I am in the company of one of the owners of the aforementioned muffs  !

So, to sum up, steer clear of muffs if you value your eyesight.  (you rightly pointed out the "compromised with glasses" fact).  If you can stand muffs on your ears, especially during hot weather, then I would look at someone called Howard Leight, he seems to have it sussed at a reasonable price.

The 'in ear' are the type that I would buy, although I have had problems with my Cens electrics, I have never had any issues with my 25 years old Emtech's. The Cens have never been right from day 1, BUT that may be due to having all those muffs, many, many years ago.     :thankyou:

Sir, please take a bow . What an informative post

 

[westley]

Sir, please take a bow . What an informative post

IF you go for the Emtechs (or similar) do get the florescent colours, they are easier to find, should you drop one (I know to my cost).

 

[ChrisPackham]

Having experimented with muffs of every shape and size , I’d suggest disposable foam ear plugs with electronically enhanced muffs over the top.  This gives me the same standard of hearing as usual with the added protection that if my gun mount is so poor to knock the muffs off then the plugs are a back up.

in respected of glasses you can get alternative foam for muffs with a cut out although these seem to be only in the US.

A while ago I met an RCS surgeon whose advice was ‘if you really must expose your hearing to gunfire (and I suggest that you don’t) then the best thing is to use foam plugs inside ear cans”

The only time I don’t do this is when game shooting where you are not in an enclosed environment and you are shooting less frequently .

 

[Iggy]

IF you go for the Emtechs (or similar) do get the florescent colours, they are easier to find, should you drop one (I know to my cost).

I’d second that...tried loads of different types when I started out and then bought some Emtec Noisebreakers. They are moulded specifically to your ears and have a small valve to cut out the gunshots while (sort of) allowing you to hear conversations. 

Very comfortable and effective, lot cheaper than the electronic types. Ive never liked earmuffs, feels like your having your hread squeezed and was always bothered about scratching my gun stock. 

 

[MartynB]

IF you go for the Emtechs (or similar) do get the florescent colours, they are easier to find, should you drop one (I know to my cost).

Yes , that’s the brand I have for the passive silicon plugs .    Emtec Noisebreaker . In real terms they are cheaper today than 20 years ago . 

Ear muffs on a game shoot ? What what!!

Seriously  though, I was using my usual ear defenders i use for clays when rifle shooting indoors. Forgot them and used some foam plugs. I though the 25p plugs were more effective and I wasn't having to re adjust to keep them from touching the stock.  

Yes foam plugs  can do a good job . I wore them under my crash helmet during my motorbike days,(  another potential source of hearing damage , can be the air blasting over)   , problem is , since I retired I can no longer wander down to the production area and just trouser a pocket full ....  

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I'd used the custom molded in-ear plugs since the early 90's.  Couple years ago needing new ones I decided to try some muffs since the cost of the molded things had gotten just silly.  Been using the Howard Leight with the electrics.  Perfectly fine even with the shooting glasses - very quiet.  So in a weak moment a few weeks ago I had some new molded ones made for reasons I really have trouble coming up with.  They're certainly quiet but the muffs are much better.  A gentleman I shoot with an I were discussing that and he said that he had read that the muffs seemed quieter because they covered some of the bone areas that conduct sound too.  Makes some sense as bone conduction hearing aids are very common.

At any rate - JMO, but the muffs are decidedly better for me in terms of the de-booming.

you may also find some worthy comments here:

http://www.shootclayforum.com/topic/22157-music-protection/?tab=comments#comment-255449

 

[westley]

Yes , that’s the brand I have for the passive silicon plugs .    Emtec Noisebreaker . In real terms they are cheaper today than 20 years ago . 

Yes foam plugs  can do a good job . I wore them under my crash helmet during my motorbike days,(  another potential source of hearing damage , can be the air blasting over)   , problem is , since I retired I can no longer wander down to the production area and just trouser a pocket full ....  

I got the Emtechs when the motor cyclists that I worked with were getting them supplied as a 'Health and Safety' issue, due to the foam plugs sometimes causing ear infections. The plugs were being put in and out of their ears all day (or night) and it was difficult hearing their radio inside their helmets. The Emtechs were trialled and proved to be the right tool for the job (so to speak !). They have a small valve thing which allowed the passage of low noise, but cut out any loud noise. So, when the chap that was doing the ear moulds came, I joined the queue and sent the company my cheque direct. That was over 25 years ago, and apart from having to replace 1 due to loss, they are still going strong, sad to say my ears are not and I now need enhanced hearing defenders. Having tried several 'Muffs' and not really got on with any of them, due to clanging defender/gunstock and even a blood blister below my ear, I tried the Cens. Enough said.  I do find the Howard Leights the best for MY use and I only get the occasional stock clang and I can live with that.

Sir, please take a bow . What an informative post

Rather than take another bow, I will try and do autograph signings, given the room  !      :angel:

 

[Will Hewland]

Well, I am still using my 12 year old MSA Sordin headphones. Now with the Gel inserts. Very comfortable even though they aren’t clamped tightly to your head, which many cheap headphones are, presumably to make up for their poor ear pads. The noise reduction is better than anything I’ve shoved in my ears (including two types of moulded and various foam ones). Headphones have to be better, as they cover the whole ear. I’m told noise comes through the skull, not just the ear canal. 

I wear mine “backwards” with the buttons, sat on a recess, on my right ear and this means the stock doesn’t ever touch them. The only thing to watch for is certain makes of glasses frame can lift or distort the ear pad, but most are fine. The only time I don’t wear them is on very hot days. 

 

[MartynB]

I got the Emtechs when the motor cyclists that I worked with were getting them supplied as a 'Health and Safety' issue, due to the foam plugs sometimes causing ear infections. The plugs were being put in and out of their ears all day (or night) and it was difficult hearing their radio inside their helmets. The Emtechs were trialled and proved to be the right tool for the job (so to speak !). They have a small valve thing which allowed the passage of low noise, but cut out any loud noise.  

Indeed , I worked in the chemical industry , ear plugs were never used for more than one insertion ,  whether it be 10 minutes or half a day .We supplied rather natty ones joined with a length of cord so that  single plugs didn’t get into the process ! I found the Emtechs didn’t suit me on the bike , they were actually too good at times . Aftet  20 years they still fit and still do a great job . I looked at the  digital CENS , but I struggle with the value . 

Well, I am still using my 12 year old MSA Sordin headphones. Now with the Gel inserts. Very comfortable even though they aren’t clamped tightly to your head, which many cheap headphones are, presumably to make up for their poor ear pads. The noise reduction is better than anything I’ve shoved in my ears (including two types of moulded and various foam ones). Headphones have to be better, as they cover the whole ear. I’m told noise comes through the skull, not just the ear canal. 

I wear mine “backwards” with the buttons, sat on a recess, on my right ear and this means the stock doesn’t ever touch them. The only thing to watch for is certain makes of glasses frame can lift or distort the ear pad, but most are fine. The only time I don’t wear them is on very hot days. 

I’m glad you’ve posted this as it’s MSA Sordin Pro X  ( x = extra water resistant ) with gel seals that I decided on after a bit of research . Your experience of them seems very good which is nice to know  .  They apparently are still manufactured in Sweden , and everything about them is quality . I particularly like the fact that they don’t cut / chop out ambient noise etc dead  , just reduce it . 

 

[westley]

Indeed , I worked in the chemical industry , ear plugs were never used for more than one insertion ,  whether it be 10 minutes or half a day .We supplied rather natty ones joined with a length of cord so that  single plugs didn’t get into the process ! I found the Emtechs didn’t suit me on the bike , they were actually too good at times . Aftet  20 years they still fit and still do a great job . I looked at the  digital CENS , but I struggle with the value . 

i have the digital Cens and they are awful. Their after sales service, is even worse  !

I have the cheapo electronic 'muffs' and just put up with my eyes lighting up in the rain  !        :fie:

 

[LarsJ]

My few pennies worth. 

Been shooting for all my adult life, on average exposed to at least a couple of 1000 shots a week. 

Started out with the 3M like thesehttps://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-E-A-R-Classic-Earplugs-310-1001-Uncorded-Pillow-Pack-2000-Pair-Case/?N=5002385+8709322+8711405+8720539+3294780198&preselect=8711720&rt=rud , used them for all sorts of gunning (5,56 to large caliber). Worked fine, but a PITA to wear all day, especially when the need to communicate is present, or the need to use your ears to listen to surroundings. 

Then the state figured out it was a good idea we could communicate and listen to our surroundings, and they went with the molded type with passive filter (shot killer). They were ok to wear all day, and we needed a new mold made every 3 years (health and safety again, your ear canal changes with age and weight difference too). After we had them as issued for 10 years or so, then the light bulb went on, they were actually not protecting good enough for gunshots ( especially long bursts of  7,62 and  the report of 12,7 mm). They are simply just not good enough protection (actually when you look up on the companies webpages what the NRR is, they rarely are above 29). By the way, we used Phonak ones. Can’t see what the NRR are for the CENS And if you go that way, do get the ridiculous colours, easier to find when you drop them in the field.

Now we use MSA  Sordin with the gel cups, special made so they can hook up to our communication. Nice and comfy, and give a good situational awareness .

i’d use some sort of that, MSA,Peltor or whatever brand that comes recommended where you are  with electronic enhancement, when out hunting.

For they clay ground, I’d recommend these https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-E-A-Rsoft-Yellow-Neons-Earplugs-312-1250-Uncorded-Poly-Bag-2000-Pair-Case/?N=5002385+8709322+8711405+8720539+3294780195&preselect=8711720&rt=rud , very comfy to wear for a long time ( remember to insert them correctly). They have a NRR of 33 dB, which is better than molded earplugs. Over those I’d have some normal ear defenders, with no electronics in them ( not allowed in my discipline). I have the peltor X5. 

It has 2 big advantages on the clay ground, 1. I feel isolated, can only hear the report of the guns, and vaguely the horn, so I don’t focus on my, or others scores. 2. When I remove the over ear, I’m still protected. I have tinnitus due to being under the muzzle of a 12,7 machine gun emptying a box of ammunition. And due to being a tough smart ass in younger years listening to load music on my Walkman, and also the occasional chat needed at the shooting range (thus removing over ear defenders).

You can shoot every day for 9 years using the foam ones, before the CENS are a better buy (just financially, still don’t know if they protect better, as mentioned I can’t find NRR). Sure this will rub some folks the wrong way, now that they have paid through the nose, for something that might give them less protection ( only talking clay shooting here, not hunting). 

Lars

 

[chippy]

i used custom made plugs for years and thought they were great until i forgot them one day and borrowed a set of standard passive muffs. on the first stand i honestly thought i had a problem with the gun its was so quiet. ive never used plugs again. i use peltor sportac's now

 

[TheSherriff70]

It is all a matter or personal choice, but here is my tuppence worth...

Cans are great, but I am a glasses wearer and find it uncomfortable to wear a cap, glasses and then cans. It’s sometimes too hot, other times it’s just too much going on, and I can’t get one or all of them comfortable.

I went to Shrewsbury to the Emtec place, and had the moulds done, and two days later the plugs arrived. Approx £100, but they are great. I can hear conversations, but they block out the bulk of the noise. Any weather they are just great. I can still hear the trap, if they are close by.

Highly recommend them. No electrics, no moving parts, just effective noise control. 

I have a pair of the Howard Leight cans, and I like them, but I haven’t worn them since owning the Emtecs. 

 

[LarsJ]

Just effective noise control. 

No. Please look up the report noise of a shotgun. And then look up the recommended SNR for that level of dB. You think you are protected, but you are not in the long run.  The ones emtec refers to shooting on their web page have a SNR of 25.

Lars