Blaser F16 experiment. A sensible risk?

[Lloyd]

I must say I am rather taken with Blaser on the whole. F3 even on the second hand market is too much to spend at my stage of development regardless of being able to afford it, it's a question of justification.

I have taken something of a shine to the F16, though standard stock dimensions put a second hand one out of contention for gun fit. A new gun ordered with stock dimensions to fit would be circa £4k so still difficult to justify for an experimental phase, even taking into account the (much reduced) resale values.

I'm not sure even if a modifying a second hand F16 is a sensible risk for a first gun.

I've seen F16's around the £2½K mark ± £100. I have the tools and I believe the skills to modify the stock, but even so, a gunsmith could shorten the stock and fit a comb raiser for about a £100's or so, which isn't too much more than a new B525 Liberty, but I would probably lose a fair amount of money on that, so a bit of a risk to go through just to try one out properly.

I have considered trying a F16 Intuition, but they are R/H cast only. I could shoot from my right, and if the clays are close, my sight picture won't be too blurred and I can momentairlity close one eye before I take the shot, just to see how they feel. I can hit stuff shooting from my right, just a little less successfully.

Thank you all in advance for your knowledgeable opinions

 

[Cosmicblue]

Take a look at the Benelli 828U Sport Lloyd  - there are one or two around at a place very close to your budget.     The Sport is Benelli's 2nd bash at making an OU shotgun and specifically intended for clays the gun has a stock design that is intended to be adjustable (about 40 options including cast and drop) as well as being adjustable for balance with a very crisp adjustable trigger pull and integral recoil-reducer hidden in the stock.  

 

[Lloyd]

I had considered the Benelli. heard some less than flattering reviews about reliability. One of them was a dealer who sells the brand from new!

Very interesting gun though

 

[timps]

Invariably most new shooters that stick at the sport change their ideas about what they want from a gun as they progress. Bearing that in mind

When I first started, I was given (although my father insists, I stole) a Browning Citori 325 28” and that gun was on borrowed time from day one. My proper first gun I actually purchased was between a Browning ultra XS or a Beretta 682 gold E or DT10, but herein lies your problem, my sensible head said stick with what you know Browning and my heart was Beretta.

I bought the Browning but that itch of wanting a Beretta never left me and it did play on my mind especially when I was having a bad day. That itch got so big that I finally bought a Beretta DT10 and was glad I did and wished I’d done it sooner and I did take a hit from the ultra xs they were just not in vogue at the time of sale.

I thought this DT10 was my gun for life until my itch for a CG started, now my head said no, CG don’t sell as well, think of the second hand value etc. but I wasn’t making the same mistake twice so I  bought one and glad I did.

The thing is if you are anything like me if you have a liking for a Blazer at some point you will have to own one. It’s a tool so get the best one for the job and believe me the one that is in your heart is invariable the one your mind keeps nagging you that you need regardless if it is or not. If you want to save money then take up any other sport rather than shooting as you will invariably buy more than one gun, I bought a Beretta 682 Gold E for no other reason than I always wanted it.

If you just want a first gun to get you going and see what’s what buy a second hand Miroku they are cheap to buy 2nd hand, they sell well and you don’t lose much if anything on them. If you want a Beretta then a 682 gold E,  If you want long term then go with your heart.

In terms of cost, buying an in between gun and selling it on can be more costly than going for the one you wanted in the first place.

No one can tell you which one you are going to prefer shooting so go with your heart or buy cheap second hand that's easy to sell on until you know what you personally want from a shotgun.

Just my take on it.

 

[Lloyd]

"Invariably most new shooters that stick at the sport change their ideas about what they want from a gun as they progress."

"In terms of cost, buying an in between gun and selling it on can be more costly than going for the one you wanted in the first place."

". . . buy cheap second hand that's easy to sell on until you know what you personally want from a shotgun."

Just my take on it.

• Yes, I would expect I might change my mind in time.
  
• I agree, no matter how good a residual value may be, S/H or new, you'll always lose some money. Money isn't everything though eh? Leisure and education have always been expensive!
  
• My thoughts thus far have gone something along those lines.
  

I really get on very well with the B525 Liberty. The stock is damn near spot on. The gun comes to the cheek and shoulder very well, quickly, repeatedly, comfortably. Not perfect, but then I'm far from perfect and might very well change.

The F16 Game Intuition actually is even better fit (save from the fact they're only available in R/H) and the action is silky smooth to open/close which I like very much as I noticeably have to think about opening and closing the Browning.

I guess it comes down to three choices.

1. Browning B525 Liberty 28" barrels £2,150 new, good resale potential, temporary gun (maybe) while I refine my style.
   
2. S/H F16 ≈ £2,500 + mods. Potentially poor resale but not huge losses
   
3. New F16 Game with factory altered stock £3,354-£3,674 depending upon wood/balancer options
   

In order of head, reverse order of heart. 

I think I'd stick with 28"barrels. Haven't got on at all well with 32" and even 30" seem cumbersome to me, at the moment at least. I could always go for extended chokes at a later date. That could possibly hit a sweet spot for me

 

[timps]

In terms of clay shooting 28” isn’t popular nowadays, the two most popular sizes are 32” and 30” I started off with 28” and have owned 30” and 32” I wouldn’t go back 28”. Not that 28" is wrong, but go to any registered shoot and 28” will be very few and far between with none of the top shots using it which kind of sets supply and demand for them.

Based on that a lot of the sporting guns are developed with 32” barrels in mind for balance, the lighter barrels for Beretta were developed with longer barrels in mind .  

Extended chokes are not going to help turn a 28” into shooting like a 30” as one of the benefits of the longer barrels is the sighting plane which is down to the rib.

If you do prefer 28” then don’t let me put you off but you will find 28” tends not to sell as well for clay guns especially in the 2nd hand clay market and you would be in the minority for competition shooters.  

 

[Lloyd]

. . . you will find 28” tends not to sell as well for clay guns especially in the 2nd hand clay market

. . .  you would be in the minority for competition shooters.  

I feel I could live with the extra losses and at 5' 6" I'm something of a minority as it is. To be truthful, I've never been one to take trends into consideration on any decisions.

I'm prepared for the discovery later that I need to sell a 28", take the loss and trade for a 30" if that turns out to be the case.

Thank you for pointing out the choke/rib. I hadn't considered that.

This would be my first gun purchase and I'm not wholly expecting it to be my last. However, I'm keen to get the decision as good as it can be rather than chop and change multiple times and keep having to learn a new gun which I feel could slow my progress

 

[MartynB]

In summary you are looking for a , left hand cast gun with a fairly short length of pull  . You like the second hand F16 but the cost of modifications to the stock will be a few quid and will make the gun hard to resell . You can however afford a new F3 game gun if you wish . 

 You have also posted quite a lot about balance etc . 

So , buy any secondhand F16 you fancy . Buy a suitable TSK (or similar ) totally adjustable anatomical stock  .  You get your gun , you get left hand , pretty much infinite  fit adjustment . You will also have a few bob change from the cost of the game gun . 

If you get fed up , the original gun will sell on unmolested  , The TSK could also be sold on or parts purchased to use on a different brand . 

Job sorted . 

 

[Will Hewland]

Very short stocks tend to be tricky with adjustable combs as you run into the cut-out if you chop the back off. Some TSK TYPE stocks have limitations of shortness I think.. I think an F16 which then has an adjustable comb cut in by a stocker is the way to go. (As I just had done). 

 

[MartynB]

I’m not 100% but some years back I looked at putting an adjustable on our K80 when my lad was in his teens . There was certainly a junior dimension stock with a shorter LOP. We never followed it up as we appropriated my wife’s 682 which had been shortened . 

 

[Bebo]

Very short stocks tend to be tricky with adjustable combs as you run into the cut-out if you chop the back off. Some TSK TYPE stocks have limitations of shortness I think.. I think an F16 which then has an adjustable comb cut in by a stocker is the way to go. (As I just had done). 

Couldn't take my K80 less than 13 3/4 because of the adjustable comb that was built in.  As you say probably better to get one added.

Might not be that easy for an F16 as they haven't been around long, but for my DT10 rather than much up the stock that came with it I was able to get hold of another stock fairly cheaply which I then got shortened to suit.  Means that if I ever get rid it'll have two stocks to go with it, the original and a short one.

 

[Hamster]

Very short stocks tend to be tricky with adjustable combs as you run into the cut-out if you chop the back off. Some TSK TYPE stocks have limitations of shortness I think.. I think an F16 which then has an adjustable comb cut in by a stocker is the way to go. (As I just had done). 

When I had my stock adapted to fit a Isis shock absorber the gunsmith had to make a thin metal end plate in the shape of the complete stock end and shorten the adj comb as well, luckily it makes no difference as my face is still well forward of that point.

 

[Lloyd]

Buy a suitable TSK (or similar )

Well, that had crossed my mind and I enquired a few weeks ago. I got ZERO response from both companies! The TSK (they don't fit Blaser off the shelf), Ergosign (fit blaser) are about £1,500.

You make some very valid points about the resale. I could even go for any F16 new or used or even a used F3 for that matter if it took my fancy, L/H or R/H. it wouldn't matter with your good suggestion.

It's crossed my mind to manufacture my own stock. I have design, woodworking, metalworking and composites skills, tools and materials at hand. . . but alas not so much time.

Very short stocks tend to be tricky with adjustable combs as you run into the cut-out if you chop the back off. Some TSK TYPE stocks have limitations of shortness I think.. I think an F16 which then has an adjustable comb cut in by a stocker is the way to go. (As I just had done). 

Thanks Will, that's an excellent suggestion and clearly a well informed one

 

[Will Hewland]

Well, that had crossed my mind and I enquired a few weeks ago. I got ZERO response from both companies! The TSK (they don't fit Blaser off the shelf), Ergosign (fit blaser) are about £1,500.

You make some very valid points about the resale. I could even go for any F16 new or used or even a used F3 for that matter if it took my fancy, L/H or R/H. it wouldn't matter with your good suggestion.

It's crossed my mind to manufacture my own stock. I have design, woodworking, metalworking and composites skills, tools and materials at hand. . . but alas not so much time.

Thanks Will, that's an excellent suggestion and clearly a well informed one

Oh, one other thing.. I assume F16 is like F3. There is a very long stock bolt rod that runs the length of the stock to hold balance weights. That will need shortening, or maybe Blaser do a short one. Just another thing to bear in mind and mention to stocker.

 

[Lloyd]

Oh, one other thing.. I assume F16 is like F3. There is a very long stock bolt rod that runs the length of the stock to hold balance weights. That will need shortening, or maybe Blaser do a short one. Just another thing to bear in mind and mention to stocker.

Another good point Will. thanks.

The intuition stock is 14" LoP and they can be had with the balancing weights. I don't know if that has a shorter than standard bolt or not. I'll ask blaser UK (if they ever get around to answer any of the emails I sent them!)

 

[Will Hewland]

Another good point Will. thanks.

The intuition stock is 14" LoP and they can be had with the balancing weights. I don't know if that has a shorter than standard bolt or not. I'll ask blaser UK (if they ever get around to answer any of the emails I sent them!)

Might be worth speaking to Mulliner Guns. They are the Blaser service people and should be a quick way to find stuff. 

 

[Lloyd]

Might be worth speaking to Mulliner Guns. They are the Blaser service people and should be a quick way to find stuff. 

Cheers Will. That's quite possibly the most piece of useful information I've had and you've given plenty of that already. I'm much obliged to you sir!

 

[Lloyd]

@Will Hewland I spoke with Kerry at Mulliners this afternoon. She's told me that Blaser no longer supply the F16 with factory modifications even though these still show on the  blaser.de configurator.

They can however shorten the LoP and fit an adjustable comb and maintain the factory warranty.

They have a new left hand F16 Sporting in stock for a very competitive price.

I've also been told that 28" barrels are no longer being made, so 30" it is!

So for a shade over £3k I can do my "experiment". I'm reasonably happy with that  

 

[Adam17]

Crikey, if you can afford it, and the resale loss doesn't bother you, go for it. You will end up owning it anyway... And you wouldn't of bought other guns in place - costing you more in the long run.

Wish I had the funds to buy the gun I wanted when I started - Browning ultra xs/pro sport/525sl.

I ended up with a 1996 Rizzini.E bought from a friend for £200. It does the trick and dusts the clays. And I am (trying) to save for the browning.