Brace yourself

[Wonko the Sane]

I don't want to throw stones but I've often commented here that not having a universal detailed policy and procedure, NOT generated by the police and limiting the local police to enforcement only and no policy innovations, is an invitation abuse and it appears some disasters.

There is no denying that there are serious problems in the US but having the locals make it up as they go is not one of them.  OK so you can flame away but AFAIC the topic here in US the is way too complicated (for me to get into some discussion here) and no one seems politically capable of attending to it for fear of pissing off one faction or another.

anyway ....

 

[balltrap]

It was removed in September 2020 from him for alledged assult, not sure if it was issued in 2020

It was returned to him on July this year !

 

[Jonny English]

Regardless of what the police commission, government or media say about the licensing system, expect changes and tightening, even if only small measures. Every chief constable in the country will be telling their FAO's that they don't want a Plymouth on their patch, and we all know that they can impose what they like regardless of the home office guidance.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I would suggest that he was NEVER convicted or even charged with assault and as a result his gun was returned to him. People with mental issues can be extremely clever at concealing their condition, look at the numbers who have been released back into society and then go on to commit some horrific crimes.  This person was issued with a shotgun certificate in 2020, I would presume that he would have to produce his medical record, signed by a Doctor at that time  ?   

Agreed but what I would like to know is who is he alleged to have assaulted? If it is a random person in a pub or on the street and  the case has not gone forward I would still say that is grounds for not returning his rights to a shotgun. If it was a family member and the charges were dropped I think even more reason not to have his rights restored. Just my opinion but people who get into situations such as alleged assaults are showing their underlying character ... its not rocket science.

 

[balltrap]

Listening to LBC radio this morning about the shooting in Plymouth, there was a ex-policeman answering questions about gun licencing, he made a statement saying that pump action shotguns where on class 1 firearms ? and made no comment to the 3 shot restriction following Dun Blane, feeding the non-shooting general public with false info does not help !

 

[FlyingTrotter]

This AM on BBC a senior police officer with connection to the Cumbria shootings calling for

- single system for all weapons

- therefore obligation placed on all applicants to establish a need for shotguns as well as rifles and more than one referee needed and access to social media required

- more police staff needed to schorl social media 

I can see the Home Sec supporting an overhaul of the licensing regime and the placing of more restrictions on all firearm ownership/ possession BUT I can’t see there being major additional funds provided to employ additional police staff so if they do require additional checks inc time consuming reviews of social media accounts that will be likely to significantly slow the approval process. I was at Bisley on Friday and my instructor mentioned that he had been asked to apply to renew his certificate a year early to avoid delays and that was before this incident 

terrible incident and that should be the focus but I fear as others have said that we will see disproportionate legislative steps 

 

[Salopian]

Could anyone please furnish me with the name of the MP who has said in a TV interview that he sees no need for shotguns in the public domain. I would like to correspond with him , meet him, and educate him.

Also could anyone tell me when BBC Breakfast television will be interviewing Matthew Coward Holley to celebrate his Olympic success as they have done with every other British Medal winner?

 

[westley]

It was removed in September 2020 from him for alledged assult, not sure if it was issued in 2020

I read that he had HELD a 'gun licence' since 2020. It was removed in December 2020, due to an allegation of assault. I read today that someone else has come out of the woodwork claiming he was assaulted by the Offender 5 years ago and "The Police did nothing"   !

 

[Jan Powell]

I read that he had HELD a 'gun licence' since 2020. It was removed in December 2020, due to an allegation of assault. I read today that someone else has come out of the woodwork claiming he was assaulted by the Offender 5 years ago and "The Police did nothing"   !

It’s amazing how people ‘come out of the woodwork’ when the TV producers and their bulging wallets come knocking.

 

[Salopian]

Lots of knee jerk reaction and comments by so called 'experts' .

I note the television rushed to get an interview with shooting's 'spokesman'  one Mr. Yardley !

There is plenty of correct legislation already in place to operate the licensing procedure correctly .

Checking an applicants social media profile will be futile and a waste of Police administration time , they are already stretched to implement without giving them a more time wasting exercise . All the 'nutters' would just use false identities when online and thanks to Lincolnshire Constabulary for implementing Medical checks that GP's are loathe to provide or will do so at extortionate cost that other Constabularies have thought was a good idea, but in reality as completely clogged the system up to the point where many Constabularies are now issuing certificates WITHOUT PROPER CHECKS !

Many applicants were perfectly suitable to have been issued with a SGC five years ago , but what has happened in the last five years to their situation?

The current application form is adequate IF an officer visits and interviews the applicant and checks their demeanour, reason for applying etc.

 

[chippy]

The current application form is adequate IF an officer visits and interviews the applicant and checks their demeanour, reason for applying etc.

My feo is visiting me tomorrow for my renewal.

 

[westley]

You can NEVER legislate for peoples state of mind. Look at the number of people who have been released from secure units, after fooling a panel of 'Experts'  then go on to commit some horrific crimes. A Doctor or Police Officer can only assess your suitability to have a firearm, on the DAY they interview you.  What happens after that to make people lose control,  can not be foreseen.

 

[TRINITY]

I know this is quite a terrible way of looking at things, but the news coming out of Afganistan has quickly flooded the media. Anyone tuning in right now would not even be aware of the Plymouth tragedy. Politicians always react to the here and now and this may have given a little time for a sensible appraisal and not some quick knee jerk reaction.

I dont have a crystal ball, but I can see shotguns being lumped in with section 1 as the most likely outcome. If it happens then we just have to live with it . All the security aspects and referees etc are no problem to me personally. The only possible inconvenience could be cartridge purchase and if they limit you to say s couple of hundred that could prove a right pain .

 

[FlyingTrotter]

I know this is quite a terrible way of looking at things, but the news coming out of Afganistan has quickly flooded the media. Anyone tuning in right now would not even be aware of the Plymouth tragedy. Politicians always react to the here and now and this may have given a little time for a sensible appraisal and not some quick knee jerk reaction.

I dont have a crystal ball, but I can see shotguns being lumped in with section 1 as the most likely outcome. If it happens then we just have to live with it . All the security aspects and referees etc are no problem to me personally. The only possible inconvenience could be cartridge purchase and if they limit you to say s couple of hundred that could prove a right pain .

Agreed on the impact if we start to see the number of cartridges that can be purchased/ held in store at home more severely limited - the larger commercial shoots and the shooting grounds will end up becoming the suppliers of carts for many and no way they will hold the wide range of options - I can see all of that happening 

 

[TRINITY]

Agreed on the impact if we start to see the number of cartridges that can be purchased/ held in store at home more severely limited - the larger commercial shoots and the shooting grounds will end up becoming the suppliers of carts for many and no way they will hold the wide range of options - I can see all of that happening 

Yes and a monopoly of supply. Buy from us or forget it . 

Anyhow, pure speculation, let's hope it never happens.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Even as an outsider to the situation in the UK, I can relate to the fears of stringent measures following a tragedy. None of which will offer any reprieve to victims, none of which will undo what's already happened and most of which won't do much to prevent any future tragedies. As has been rightly said, you can't regulate on the basis of anyone's future state of mind. Nor on their past state of mind, although that can be an indicator of potential risks (even if a poor one). More regulations will serve as a burden to law-abiding sportsmen and women and to responsible owners of guns, but the perpetrator won't be among them anymore. As for restrictions on the amount of cartridges we can all see the folly, as only one could suffice for anything terrible but for serious sportsmen having several thousand can reasonably be explained.   

We've had a horrific incident in NL years ago, that could and should have been prevented by the then established rules and laws. It wasn't. The police force was found liable in civil court, but that didn't stop the rules from being tightened and many (more) restrictions being imposed. It has even come to a computer program that allegedly establishes whether an applicant is of a sound enough mind, which has been criticised by all (courts included) yet is still "under evaluation" (but required for new applicants nonetheless) and will likely become a periodic obligation. I truly hope you are spared similar efforts by (hopefully) even well meaning rule-makers, as rights are easily crossed out with a single pen, but require momentous efforts to reinstate. 

I would offer that publicly discussing the possible restrictions may do more to inspire those seeking restrictions than it does to counter their imposition.  

 

[ColinD]

Let's not get to bogged down with the 'I can see this happening and that happening'.

We will have to wait and see, the outcome of the enquiry will be along in time with recommendations a plenty no doubt

As has been said the situation in Afghanistan is flooding the news at the moment, hopefully this will slow up any knee jerk reactions

 

[balltrap]

The Government has announced firearms applicants will be subject to social media checks.

 

[balltrap]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/plymouth-shooting-police-should-check-firearms-applicants-social-media-ex-met-ch/

Listen to the second clip !

 

[ips]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/plymouth-shooting-police-should-check-firearms-applicants-social-media-ex-met-ch/

Listen to the second clip !

Flamin Eck