Cart's ID

bigmac1 · Dec 14, 2013

http://www.shootclayforum.com/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-470-0-53369600-1387027364.jpghttp://www.shootclayforum.com/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-470-0-84192600-1387027160.jpgHi Guy's. I wonder if anyone can help? Apart from the obvious can anyone tell me how old these cart's are. I've been given 20 of them off a farmer who no longer shoot's, They're paper cases with a paper cap and No5 shot but no shot weight. They're Eley Grand Prix, Smokeless Diamond powder. Look's as though someone has tried to fire them but they didn't go off. Are they fiber or plas? and would they be any good to a collector. I look forward to your info.

Skeet UK · Dec 14, 2013

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=166856

http://www.eley.co.uk/history-of-eley/

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/about%20us.html

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/111095-how-old-is-this-cartridge/

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/175941-help-needed-cartridge-identification/

Pre 1964. (If the cap/primer is copper, the cartridge goes back to 1930/50s) After 1964, the ICI was omitted and only one '12' stamped. The case would be a 2 9/16" length for strict 2 1/2" chambers and for RTO. The powder would not be the 80 series but either 60 series or earlier 1,2 and 4. If earlier it could be 'Smokeless Diamond' powder, a double-base dark grey disc propellant.

I've received an email from the MD of Eley:
"Head stamps bearing the ICI roundel came into use in 1930 and continued in use until the Eley Ammunition Division of Imperial Metal Industries (Kynoch) Ltd was formed in 1962. The head stamp continued in use until October 1963 when the ICI roundel was removed".

So it is between 47 and 80 years old, nice to get that little puzzle sorted.

Following their amalgamation in 1922, in the aftermath of war, with all the other well known members of the UK ammunition and explosives trade under Nobel’s leadership, the Explosives Trade Ltd became Nobel Industries and a founder of ICI in 1926. The rationalisation of UK ammunition manufacture in the 1920’s saw the 'KYNOCH' name perpetuated as the brand name for metallic ammunition, while Eley became, as it still is, the brand name for sporting cartridges.

The ICI headstamp was for Imperial Chemical Industries later removed for Eley _ Kynoch and later just Eley.
These cartridges are left over from a different age and are getting quite rare now. They would still work ok and if you shoot them smell the powder smoke and the paper case. I can remember being on pheasant shoots and picking them up off of the ground freshly shot a smelling it from when I was a kid.
That’s what makes them rare. Memories. Once they are shot their gone into history like drinking an old bottle of port. Do you or don’t you. That’s the question

Macc Ladd · Dec 14, 2013

Fair do's good detective work! My first guess was 1960s used to use eley cartridges to shoot rabbits in my early teens.

shootinguru · Dec 14, 2013

They would have been felt wad as plaswads started about 1970 in the U.K.

40UP · Dec 14, 2013

I agree with everything said, many old boxes turn up and their value is in pence each not pounds. A full box in good condition might fetch ten or fifteen pounds but no way should they just be fired off - people do like to keep them.