chokes / shotstring

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A J Smith! Won major championships in 70-80-90sincluding World championships as a senior and a veteran  great believer in 1/4 & 3/4 

His old Winchester's were fixed choke and his Classic Doubles were multichoke! He always said throw away the other multichoke!

 
Pretty sure his early Winchester was fixed 3/4 Full or Full & Full hence how came to acquire the nickname, he did indeed say in articles that 1/4 will break a crosser a long way out but doubt he ever shot it routinely for any length of time, when Winchester folded and he had to switch guns he shot a DT10 and eventually settled on 1/2 & Full. 

 
Well so far AJ has been attributed to have used tight chokes,half and half,quarter and half and now quarter and three quarters....so basically he used everything!

Sure that clears it up  :lol:

Missed half and full!

 
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Well so far AJ has been attributed to have used tight chokes,half and half,quarter and half and now quarter and three quarters....so basically he used everything!

Sure that clears it up  :lol:

Missed half and full!
what about when he chopped off a few inch off the barrels to shoot star shot ! ..........the gun would be very tight would it not !

 
so going back to my original question      anyone nowadays shoot open chokes  and have won a big shoot   in esp  ?      what about county level !

 
so going back to my original question      anyone nowadays shoot open chokes  and have won a big shoot   in esp  ?      what about county level !
who is country level is he a  sporting shooter !

 
so going back to my original question      anyone nowadays shoot open chokes  and have won a big shoot   in esp  ?      what about county level !
Nowadays is a modification of the original question!

I can tell you that i was told many top shots say they are shooting full but it is actually relevant to older English guns which equates to about half now...true or not i have no idea?

 
I probably knew John as long as any member on here and I know that he shot 1/4  &1/2  a lot of the time at sporting! Originally AJ was a trap shooter out of Fareham Gun Club. His Classic Doubles were M/C but he never changed chokes or I never saw him do it?

 
Some comps could easily be won with 1/4 & 1/4 but others you need at least 1/2 & 3/4 choke in my opinion, that's why multi chokes evolved, surely experience should tell you which combination is best for a particular shoot. As for shot string, it does not exist, it doesn't matter how fast you swing your gun across a pond and shoot, you will never see the mystical shot string in the water!

 
Some comps could easily be won with 1/4 & 1/4 but others you need at least 1/2 & 3/4 choke in my opinion, that's why multi chokes evolved, surely experience should tell you which combination is best for a particular shoot. As for shot string, it does not exist, it doesn't matter how fast you swing your gun across a pond and shoot, you will never see the mystical shot string in the water!
You need to let Bob Brister know so he can  say he was wrong doing all those car-towed pattern sheets.  But you are right about never seeing it in the water.

 
I sure there is a shot string but it's not something you need to think about.

To see it in water the shot string would need to be developed in the barrels but isn't it something that only develops once the shot has left the barrels and the wad if its plastic?

 
Bruce Buck's reply is a most excellent read and mirrors the readily observable reality of why top shots invariably shoot tight chokes, I can't think of a single one who shoots below 1/2 though most will shoot 3/4 and Full or a combination of the three. 

I myself have gone through all the various phases and even recall shooting 1/4-1/4 in both barrels for a couple of years and have watched others do the exact same knowing full well as I chatted to them about their choice and experiences that their phase too will come to pass  :wink:  and that they eventually will come to realise you can't rely on chips. The trouble is open chokes can give extremely good breaks most of time because as the writer observes : "ALL SHOTGUN PATTERNS ARE HOTTER IN THE CENTER THAN AT THE EDGE."

That's great until you come unstuck because the edges WILL let you down.

"If the center already is so thin that it has the minimal acceptable density, then there is NO fringe because the pattern mathematically has to get weaker and weaker the further it is from the center. If you start with minimal acceptable, you have no where to go but to unacceptable. Your center and your minimally acceptable fringe become one."

 
Some comps could easily be won with 1/4 & 1/4 but others you need at least 1/2 & 3/4 choke in my opinion, that's why multi chokes evolved, surely experience should tell you which combination is best for a particular shoot. As for shot string, it does not exist, it doesn't matter how fast you swing your gun across a pond and shoot, you will never see the mystical shot string in the water!
Shot string does exist there are plenty of high speed videos on the web showing it and some actually measuring the length.

As for seeing it in water you are correct, someone bothered to work out the maths for it once, you would have to have a gun swing speed of several hundred miles per hour and actually break the sound barrier to make a minimal difference that could be seen in water.

Basically, the shot leaves the barrel too fast and you could only move your barrel millimetres if that before its all left. 

On the subject of moving pattern plates and shot string length, I remember reading an article about a Major Burrard in the 1920's shooting at a pattern plate that was on the side of a truck travelling 40 mph at a right angle to the shooter. It did move the pattern centre up to 5 inches at 40 yards.

 Others have since replicated the experiment in modern times with modern techniques and done a bit more work on it. 

The outcome was the length of shot string played no meaningful part in breaking targets. The difference in speed between target and shot means the target would have only moved a few inches before the whole string (even if it was a few feet long) would have passed any intercept point.  

You also have to take into account effective shot string, you are always going to get a few pellets way out in front and a few deformed ones lagging way behind which elongate the shot string somewhat. 

So, focusing on the entire 100% of the shot string (first and last pellet to hit) can be misleading. Focusing on the effective bulk of the shot can dramatically decrease the length of the effective shot string and therefore the amount the target clay moves in the time for it to pass.

99% of the time the shot hits the target rather than the target hitting the middle or tail end of the shot string (obviously the clay hitting the shot scenario can happen, just it’s a fluke rather than the normal way of hitting a target).

 I’ve seen some interesting high-speed videos showing the shot string hitting targets on a skeet filed to back this up.

Unless you are constantly missing by a few inches at 40 yards the length of shot string isn’t going to help much.

The best I have ever shot (more than once) is with ½ ½, I do sometimes change to skeet for low driven or rabbits that are bouncing.  But the best I ever shoot is when I leave ½ ½ or 3/8 3/8 in and don’t change, god knows why I bothered with 3/8 3/8 but I did and shot well with it so left it in.

 

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