Coaches / Instructors what is a “fair” rate

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Richard59

Richard59

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
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Location
Cirencester
Oft thought that this is a taboo subject on here, it is after all peoples careers. Having seen BenH of this parish raise the subject on FB (some may have seen, apols BenH for hijacking onto here) there have been quite a few replies, most aghast at the higher rates ( £75+ per hour) that can be commonly found, for a sport that is addictive, expensive but very much a niche / maligned is such sustainable? 

 
I had a one hour lesson at West London in 2005 that cost me £140. Not sure that included cartridges either. Learned very little. The big grounds in the South are expensive and I do think they may be missing a trick by putting some people off. But maybe they have enough bookings. 
 

I have a newbie mate who has been getting lessons at Eriswell and a smaller place up the M1 for about £50 per hour, which is very good I think. 

It all depends on what you’re after. I do a bit of coaching when time permits and I’m inexpensive because it’s not my career so I’d rather just be sensible about it. I enjoy seeing people progress and concentrate on getting all the basics right, rather than hitting lots of clays on the day. (My target audience is competition shooters looking to get out of C class, or to the top of it). If you’re a serious competition shooter then you should use an accomplished competition coach and £75 is good value if they can genuinely improve you. 

I had various lessons when I started and there was certainly no correlation between the most useful ones and what I paid. A coaching style is important to bond with. Some are very “feel” and some are very “technical” and this will be a personal preference to many.

Carl Bloxham was great and very sensible money back when I started. 

 
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Hi Rich. You could check with Stephen Nutbeam - if you haven't already - and also Shaun Porter who will meet up at Coley's or Barbury. Shaun's prices are pretty good plus he gets a good rep, and he's not a clock watcher, if you know what I mean.

 
But it’s not just about price.
 In my experience there are a lot of so called self exclaimed coaches out there who are in reality just expensive button pushers, who may (or may not) be able to tell you accurately where you missed the target. The real coaches who work with you from start to finish on technique, stance, method etc are few and far between and these are the ones you need to go to. Cheap doesn’t always mean bad and expensive doesn’t always mean good either. Look for what they have achieved as a shooter and who they have coached and to what level. These are the ones you need to go to and put price down the priority list

 
jonz said:
But it’s not just about price.
 In my experience there are a lot of so called self exclaimed coaches out there who are in reality just expensive button pushers, who may (or may not) be able to tell you accurately where you missed the target. The real coaches who work with you from start to finish on technique, stance, method etc are few and far between and these are the ones you need to go to. Cheap doesn’t always mean bad and expensive doesn’t always mean good either. Look for what they have achieved as a shooter and who they have coached and to what level. These are the ones you need to go to and put price down the priority list
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One chap I gave a lesson to had had a six lesson package at a major SG and learned little, as he had just been told “you’re behind / above” etc. Not why, or how to adjust it..

 
Some of the grounds charge ridiculous hourly rates for what is little more than very basic instruction (not coaching) at best! 

Best coach I've seen is Steve Nutbeam - fantastic knowledge and really good value for money. 

 
Nick Selby said:
Some of the grounds charge ridiculous hourly rates for what is little more than very basic instruction (not coaching) at best! 

Best coach I've seen is Steve Nutbeam - fantastic knowledge and really good value for money. 
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I remember him coaching a very young Brett Winstanley at Westlands years ago.

 
Richard59 said:
Oft thought that this is a taboo subject on here, it is after all peoples careers. Having seen BenH of this parish raise the subject on FB (some may have seen, apols BenH for hijacking onto here) there have been quite a few replies, most aghast at the higher rates ( £75+ per hour) that can be commonly found, for a sport that is addictive, expensive but very much a niche / maligned is such sustainable? 
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Really depends what you’re after. There’s plenty of instructors, many of whom are successful competitors, that’ll teach you how they shoot for a price. In my experience, there’s precious few coaches that’ll take your technique and improve it. There’s several that contribute to this website, some I’d imagine are good, others I would use if they were free!

The going rate for a good trap coach is around about £300 per day + shells and targets. Skeet’s slightly more and will probably involve an overseas trip.

 
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Price point is key. 
 

but u can’t just charge the going rate for the top coaches just because you have bills to pay. 
 

you will get found out. 
 

i teach 7 hours a day 6 days a week every week. So albeit I believe I’m worth more I’m obviously about right. 

 
This is a strange subject and as a relative new commer to clays in my retirement years i am confused by this. 

For starters who are these coaches, do they have some form of recgognised academic qualification, in fact do such things exist.

Where did the coaches learn to coach , or are they just blessed with a gift at being good at the sport and work on that factor alone.

If you talk to many sportsmen in the more popular sports, most will name a good coach or two, most will have had many coaches. However I have not met one who has told me they have learnt everything from one coach. They all say they have have good and bad bits from various coaches , plus they have adapted somethings themselves.

I am not saying coaching is a waste of time, everyone can improve with the right advice. However if you have the talent and skill you will make it. If you havnt then no coach will get you to the top. I know blokes who sadly blow quite a bit on coaching with various coaches and from what I see they dont get any better. 

Anyway , i am no coach and certainly no expert, but my philosophy is that shooting is for fun,so just enjoy it .

 
TRINITY said:
This is a strange subject and as a relative new commer to clays in my retirement years i am confused by this. 

For starters who are these coaches, do they have some form of recgognised academic qualification, in fact do such things exist.

Where did the coaches learn to coach , or are they just blessed with a gift at being good at the sport and work on that factor alone.

If you talk to many sportsmen in the more popular sports, most will name a good coach or two, most will have had many coaches. However I have not met one who has told me they have learnt everything from one coach. They all say they have have good and bad bits from various coaches , plus they have adapted somethings themselves.

I am not saying coaching is a waste of time, everyone can improve with the right advice. However if you have the talent and skill you will make it. If you havnt then no coach will get you to the top. I know blokes who sadly blow quite a bit on coaching with various coaches and from what I see they dont get any better. 

Anyway , i am no coach and certainly no expert, but my philosophy is that shooting is for fun,so just enjoy it .
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Hmm. There's definitely people who can do very well in their chosen activity but are awful teachers. But generally, good teachers need to be good at their activity to have a well rounded understanding.

I disagree that talent and skill are the definitive factors. Have you read the book "outliers"? The author quite definitively sweeps away the notion of 'talent' and proves that with work almost anyone can be elite, and conversely, none of the elites got there without work. 10,000 hours seemed to be the magic number.

But with regards to coaching, I would rather skip forward in my learning by benefitting from the experience of someone better, than muddle through and hope I figure it all out myself.

I know that's not for everyone though, and if that's how you get your enjoyment then more power to you!

 
TRINITY said:
This is a strange subject and as a relative new commer to clays in my retirement years i am confused by this. 

For starters who are these coaches, do they have some form of recgognised academic qualification, in fact do such things exist.

Where did the coaches learn to coach , or are they just blessed with a gift at being good at the sport and work on that factor alone.

If you talk to many sportsmen in the more popular sports, most will name a good coach or two, most will have had many coaches. However I have not met one who has told me they have learnt everything from one coach. They all say they have have good and bad bits from various coaches , plus they have adapted somethings themselves.

I am not saying coaching is a waste of time, everyone can improve with the right advice. However if you have the talent and skill you will make it. If you havnt then no coach will get you to the top. I know blokes who sadly blow quite a bit on coaching with various coaches and from what I see they dont get any better. 

Anyway , i am no coach and certainly no expert, but my philosophy is that shooting is for fun,so just enjoy it .
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Can of worms this one......

There are recognised qualifications from the CPSA and ASPI. Do you need these qualifications to call yourself a shooting instructor? No

Some people will get into coaching as their own shooting improves, and do the recognised courses. Some good shots will do some of the courses to get a recognised qualification to back up their own proven shooting record. There are also world title holders who are now coaching, that have no recognised qualifications whatsoever, but are exceptional coaches. Unfortunately there are also complete bandits who have no qualifications and can't shoot for s**t that proclaim to be instructors.

Knowing who's worth the money and what their limitations are is the trick. An instructor will get you to one of two levels, yours or theirs. A good instructor will know when they've hit their limit and recommend someone better.

A CPSA Level 1 instructor, with no competition history is going to give you a good foundation into the sport, with a basic gun fit, stance, eye dominance checks, safety and will get you hitting simple targets. 

I've recently passed the CPSA Level 1 instructor course and am currently B class. I've been an instructor in a non sports related profession for 30+ years, and though it would be interesting to do the CPSA course as well. Mainly to teach friends, family and getting people involved in our works gun club.  I know I can teach, but I also know my limits in the sport,  If you came to me, and were anything more than a beginner, then your money needs to  be spent elsewhere. 

Someone who has had gold medal hanging round their neck is going to take you further. Not just in ability, but in the mental side of it too.

The way I see it is Instructor Dave from the ABC School of Motoring can teach you to drive your first car. He's not going to turn you into a F1 racing driver. On the flip side, Lewis Hamilton teaching you to drive a Nissan Micra would be a complete waste of money. They both have their place in the world.

Do some research on who you're spending your hard earned cash on. There are some exceptional instructors out there, and some crap ones. One club I frequent charge about £90/hr for instruction, and  some of their instructors only have a 60% sporting average! On the flip side you can get the likes of Ben Husthwaite for £75/hr. Not hard to spot that one of those is far too expensive, and the other one is a bargain.

 
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Daz W said:
Can of worms this one......

There are recognised qualifications from the CPSA and ASPI. Do you need these qualifications to call yourself a shooting instructor? No

Some people will get into coaching as their own shooting improves, and do the recognised courses. Some good shots will do some of the courses to get a recognised qualification to back up their own proven shooting record. There are also world title holders who are now coaching, that have no recognised qualifications whatsoever, but are exceptional coaches. Unfortunately there are also complete bandits who have no qualifications and can't shoot for s**t that proclaim to be instructors.

Knowing who's worth the money and what their limitations are is the trick. An instructor will get you to one of two levels, yours or theirs. A good instructor will know when they've hit their limit and recommend someone better.

A CPSA Level 1 instructor, with no competition history is going to give you a good foundation into the sport, with a basic gun fit, stance, eye dominance checks, safety and will get you hitting simple targets. 

I've recently passed the CPSA Level 1 instructor course and am currently B class. I've been an instructor in a non sports related profession for 30+ years, and though it would be interesting to do the CPSA course as well. Mainly to teach friends, family and getting people involved in our works gun club.  I know I can teach, but I also know my limits in the sport,  If you came to me, and were anything more than a beginner, then your money needs to  be spent elsewhere. 

Someone who has had gold medal hanging round their neck is going to take you further. Not just in ability, but in the mental side of it too.

The way I see it is Instructor Dave from the ABC School of Motoring can teach you to drive your first car. He's not going to turn you into a F1 racing driver. On the flip side, Lewis Hamilton teaching you to drive a Nissan Micra would be a complete waste of money. They both have their place in the world.

Do some research on who you're spending your hard earned cash on. There are some exceptional instructors out there, and some crap ones. One club I frequent charge about £90/hr for instruction, and  some of their instructors only have a 60% sporting average! On the flip side you can get the likes of Ben Husthwaite for £75/hr. Not hard to spot that one of those is far too expensive, and the other one is a bargain.
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Love this 

 
i have seen a few coaches at various grounds price from 100 upwards.i was surprised at how few shots some of these involved plenty of talk.also its not just a case of how much the coach has won the pupil needs to gel with them also.

 
bostonmick said:
i have seen a few coaches at various grounds price from 100 upwards.i was surprised at how few shots some of these involved plenty of talk.also its not just a case of how much the coach has won the pupil needs to gel with them also.
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Could gel with anyone doesn’t mean they can help. 
 

knowledge is what your paying for 

 
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