Countback

[Nimbusgb]

Can someone explain to this dumbo what 'a simple count back system' is please?

I lost 1st place at my club shoot through a count back but I still don't know how it works.

 

[Rosso]

It's normally like this. Multiple cards with same final scores on.

If 12 stands are shot numbered 1-12. A random person is asked to call a number between 1-12. Say 3. The first 0 on that line is eliminated and so on. So if some one straighted that line and the others did not he wins, determine 1st 2nd etc as well.

 

[Nimbusgb]

Thanks Rosso.

I must always hit the first pair on a stand then!

 

[Sian]

And that is why it is important to mark scores down how they occur getting the hits and misses in the right order!

 

[Hamster]

It's normally like this. Multiple cards with same final scores on.

If 12 stands are shot numbered 1-12. A random person is asked to call a number between 1-12. Say 3. The first 0 on that line is eliminated and so on. So if some one straighted that line and the others did not he wins, determine 1st 2nd etc as well.

About as pants a system of deciding a winner as there ever was, lets face it, totally open to abuse.

 

[Nimbusgb]

And at a club shoot we usually only mark the scorecard line by line in spite of jumping stands to avoid the queues.  

I guess without having a shoot off ( which explains why 'the rules' don't allow count backs at registered shoots ) it's useful for settling things at a club level.

I've no complaints, I guess some you will win and some you'll lose. Next time I must simply get a higher score! ( There was plenty of room for improvement on my part )

I suspect my 'loss' will not be sufficient to keep me in B at the club any longer! Will be A there whilst C at the CPSA!

 

[timps]

I have been to a shoot where the stands going to be used for count back were written on a board  in order of use before the shoot commences.  

They made such a song and dance about it allegations of some type of impropriety  must have happened before at that ground. 

I have lost out every time on count back so  I am not a big fan. 

 

[Nimbusgb]

I suspect this has been done to death before so without trying to start a storm of dissent what are the alternatives without a shoot off?

Keep track of the stand order ( check sheet would need the details and the scoring software would need to be modified ) and first dropped shot of the day loses?

 

[timps]

I genuinely don't have an alternative apart from the order of the stands used being decided before the shoot commences and shown on a board does seem sensible.

The only other issue I have seen is where some poor sod has waited at the ground all day just in case he is need for a shoot off only to be told the other guy has gone home so they are using count back and he lost. 

 

[Nimbusgb]

I genuinely don't have an alternative apart from the order of the stands used being decided before the shoot commences and shown on a board does seem sensible.

The only other issue I have seen is where some poor sod has waited at the ground all day just in case he is need for a shoot off only to be told the other guy has gone home so they are using count back and he lost. 

In which case, give it to the bloke who stayed!

 

[shootinguru]

Don't shoot a ground that uses countback!   If you tie a class, add and devide first and second or third, if a medal or cup is involved pick a stand and go sudden death.

 

[schmokinn]

toss a bloody coin!!

 

[timps]

In which case, give it to the bloke who stayed!

That's what I and the vast majority of shooters including the young lad who's first trophy it would have been thought would happen. Unfortunately the club secretary deemed it was unfair to those who had shot early, had family / work commitments etc etc. and the whole reason they had count back was for when they could not hold a shoot off.

 

[Bebo]

I suspect my 'loss' will not be sufficient to keep me in B at the club any longer! Will be A there whilst C at the CPSA!

Sounds like I'm not the only one that does much better at local club shoots than I ever do at a Registered. My average at the local Sunday shoot that I go to is almost 20% higher than it is for Registered shoots.

 

[Nimbusgb]

Sounds like I'm not the only one that does much better at local club shoots than I ever do at a Registered. My average at the local Sunday shoot that I go to is almost 20% higher than it is for Registered shoots.

Yup, but not surprising. Southdown may not be the most difficult targets but they make the sporting targets at Northall look like certain gimme's. The occasional run at some 'Clay shooting Company's' targets will knock your averages back too. Even at Horne most of the clays are a step above the club ones.

That having been said if I want to practice some more challenging stuff I have only to walk over to the new Compact/Skeet/trap layout and there are some king sized birds to have a go at. Faster, further and trickier. All good fun! 19x25 on that layout sent me home happy but a little frustrated as I know I should have got 22 and to be honest if you can hit 22 why not 25? You hit the 45 metre high and fast midi 4 times ..... why not the 5th!

 

[Crocket81]

When i was a junior all them many yrs ago i lost out on 1st place at the beretta world sporting, i was gutted!I would rather of had a shoot off, i do think it is very unfair!

 

[ips]

what a bollox system that is.

 

[RobertBeard]

In small-bore target rifle shooting count back is used a lot.  It is literally the guy who shot the best at the end of the shoot wins and the longest cards e.g 100 yds take priority over the shorter distances e.g. 50 metres so you go back target of 10 shots by ten shots and the first guy with the lower score loses.  For targets with multiple aiming marks the top diagram is deemed to be shot first and the lower diagram is deemed to be shot second.  On a 50 metre card with 4 diagrams of 5 shots the top pair are deemed to be shot first and the bottom two shot second to form the tens required for countback.

In America they count X's which is inner bulls and the more inner bulls wins.

You all know you needed to know that didn't you!

Under ISSF the scoring is now decimal so you can get a 10.9 which beats a 10.8.

 

[Bebo]

Yup, but not surprising. Southdown may not be the most difficult targets but they make the sporting targets at Northall look like certain gimme's. The occasional run at some 'Clay shooting Company's' targets will knock your averages back too. Even at Horne most of the clays are a step above the club ones.

That having been said if I want to practice some more challenging stuff I have only to walk over to the new Compact/Skeet/trap layout and there are some king sized birds to have a go at. Faster, further and trickier. All good fun! 19x25 on that layout sent me home happy but a little frustrated as I know I should have got 22 and to be honest if you can hit 22 why not 25? You hit the 45 metre high and fast midi 4 times ..... why not the 5th!

I've only been to Northall twice.  The last time was at Easter and I won the ladies class.  One of the stands was on the half built (at the time) skeet range. A really fast low left to right crosser that was a fair way out and a high midi quartering from the right on top of the bank. Missed the first three pairs by slightly increasing the lead on each target.  Decided to really stretch out the lead on both of them.  Hit the last two pairs.