CPSA - Ref & Shoot Policy

[Ray]

The CPSA are currently reviewing and discussing the policy on shooters being able to shoot 1st & Referee afterwards

at the same events or visa, versa refereeing 1st & shooting afterwards.

The current position is that both are allowed, I can see the logic behind it, but as far as I'm aware, there has never been an issue with it !

I can only speak about skeet disciplines, am not sure what the policy is with other disciplines, nor am I interested, just in

the skeet discipline.

NSSA skeet in England has never had a problem with it as far as I know, and they get along fine.

If it ain't broke, don't try & fix it !!!!  :crazy:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

It was tried to be brought in by the ICTSC when i was on the board. It is not liked amongst shooters for HI for the obvious reasons..... if it is on the button.

Both myself and Carl Fielding explained in detail the pit falls........(one Director actually said that our pit falls would not happen....because shooters do not cheat in competitions..... :laugh: ...of course that person had never represented his country at anything.....everything on his cloud in cuckoo land was rosey......dont think he would have recognised gamesmanship if he fell over it :laugh: )

Imagine the senario......England team needs 2 points to win and the ref who has just shot.... is from the chasing / tying country.....ref winks at the shooter on the first station whilst asking if they are ready to start...........shooter then thinks "is this going to be a slow pull or a fast pull"........FATAL....game over.

Guess who gets to decided on any problems....yes.....the ref.....who is a shooter who has just shot...or is about to shoot....and who might be close to high gun tie...... :laugh:

Need i point out more??

It should only be allowed if they are using auto release mics.

They use the excuse of comparing it to trap....but trap is on auto release.....

Hand buttoning by anothers shooter in the same competition is a recipie for gamesmanship and disaster. 

CPSA rejected it and it went back to the ICTSC.

You have to remove all opportunities for 'poor play'.....and keep 'fair play'.

Mind you .....in the current climate....no one seems to bother about 'fair play' in anything to do with shooting....so......by all means......accept it....but dont moan afterwards when it all goes tits up :laugh:

Note....I do not shoot skeet....but i did try to protect it.......looks like everything else where people are told 'NO'...the people in the background just bring it back to the board again......until it goes through....

A bit like the new draft articles..............i wonder who is the one who is really pushing these........???????

 

[Ray]

It was tried to be brought in by the ICTSC when i was on the board. It is not liked amongst shooters for HI for the obvious reasons..... if it is on the button.

Both myself and Carl Fielding explained in detail the pit falls........(one Director actually said that our pit falls would not happen....because shooters do not cheat in competitions..... :laugh: ...of course that person had never represented his country at anything.....everything on his cloud in cuckoo land was rosey......dont think he would have recognised gamesmanship if he fell over it :laugh: )

Imagine the senario......England team needs 2 points to win and the ref who has just shot.... is from the chasing / tying country.....ref winks at the shooter on the first station whilst asking if they are ready to start...........shooter then thinks "is this going to be a slow pull or a fast pull"........FATAL....game over.

Guess who gets to decided on any problems....yes.....the ref.....who is a shooter who has just shot...or is about to shoot....and who might be close to high gun tie...... :laugh:

Need i point out more??

It should only be allowed if they are using auto release mics.

They use the excuse of comparing it to trap....but trap is on auto release.....

Hand buttoning by anothers shooter in the same competition is a recipie for gamesmanship and disaster. 

CPSA rejected it and it went back to the ICTSC.

You have to remove all opportunities for 'poor play'.....and keep 'fair play'.

Mind you .....in the current climate....no one seems to bother about 'fair play' in anything to do with shooting....so......by all means......accept it....but dont moan afterwards when it all goes tits up :laugh:

Note....I do not shoot skeet....but i did try to protect it.......looks like everything else where people are told 'NO'...the people in the background just bring it back to the board again......until it goes through....

A bit like the new draft articles..............i wonder who is the one who is really pushing these........???????

A detailed response Nic, as far as the Home Internationals are concerned, then I have no problem with it, but as far as other skeet events are concerned,

then stick with the same policy as today. :hi:

Maybe the CPSA should have a voting page on their website whereby shooters log in with their membership and vote, but suspect that's far too easy. :spiteful:

 

[Jan Powell]

The CPSA are currently reviewing and discussing the policy on shooters being able to shoot 1st & Referee afterwards

at the same events or visa, versa refereeing 1st & shooting afterwards.

The current position is that both are allowed, I can see the logic behind it, but as far as I'm aware, there has never been an issue with it !

I can only speak about skeet disciplines, am not sure what the policy is with other disciplines, nor am I interested, just in

the skeet discipline.

NSSA skeet in England has never had a problem with it as far as I know, and they get along fine.

If it ain't broke, don't try & fix it !!!!  :crazy:

No, very definately a bad idea for obvious reasons well spelt out by Nicola. The referee must be seen to be impartial. This cannot possibly happen if a rival is responsible for keeping score. Even if they are honest the potential for disputes and bad feeling when contentious decisions are made is considerable.

 

[Hawkeye]

All competition's should have employed , qualified and COMPETENT referee's . All 'discipline's' should have acoustic release . Reduce the possibility for error or controversy.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

No, very definately a bad idea for obvious reasons well spelt out by Nicola. The referee must be seen to be impartial. This cannot possibly happen if a rival is responsible for keeping score. Even if they are honest the potential for disputes and bad feeling when contentious decisions are made is considerable.

Exactly.

Anyway peeps.....thought in skeet they provided refs......??

 

[** Pending Removal **]

All competition's should have employed , qualified and COMPETENT referee's . All 'discipline's' should have acoustic release . Reduce the possibility for error or controversy.

Quite right......!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

A detailed response Nic, as far as the Home Internationals are concerned, then I have no problem with it, but as far as other skeet events are concerned,

then stick with the same policy as today. :hi:

Maybe the CPSA should have a voting page on their website whereby shooters log in with their membership and vote, but suspect that's far too easy. :spiteful:

Ray if it is a competition involving either money or team places (and on a manual release) they should have a ref who is NOT in the competition....if you want to be fair.

There is a big difference to shooters scoring other shooters like in UT, ABT, DTL etc.......and shooters pressing the clay release button.

If they are all on acoustic mics ....then i have no problem with the fairness.

No point voting.......nobody is listening to anything other than what they want to hear.....!!

As for anyone who says that there is no gamesmanship................is naive in the extreme. :laugh: ...I can still see the Director in question now....... :laugh: :laugh:

 

[joe kitson]

the welsh dont have reffs you mark a button even at the welsh open but you still pay the full price

 

[Hawkeye]

Send another letter of complaint in Joe

 

[Fuzrat]

For my part I prefer qualified experienced refs even if they have shot or are yet to shoot over kids. From my (albeit limited) skeet experience it works well enough. At the E/O I was reffed on 1 layout by Ryan Nutchey who had already shot and Julia Haville *spelling* who I think was yet to shoot, both experienced skeet shooters and excellent referees and I have no complaints about the way either of them did the job.

Granted I'm not contending for the big prizes (yet) but I would like to think they take their reffing as seriously as their shooting and want to do a proper job of it. 

I'm certainly not so naive as to miss the points made about gamesmanship and imagine it does happen, but I'm inclined to think in such a small world as skeet reputation is easily tarnished and any gamesmanship would result in not being invited to ref again.

 

[Hawkeye]

You don't have to ref to engage in gamesmanship , i've witnessed it and experienced it ' off range ' in competition's and International's . 

 

[joe kitson]

no good complaning to the welsh board they can only read in welsh they wouldent understand black country

 

[Ray]

Ray if it is a competition involving either money or team places (and on a manual release) they should have a ref who is NOT in the competition....if you want to be fair.

There is a big difference to shooters scoring other shooters like in UT, ABT, DTL etc.......and shooters pressing the clay release button.

In an ideal world maybe, I agree, but we have to look at the position as it is now, and we don't use the accoustic's :hi:

 

[Jan Powell]

I seem to remember the CPSA's plan a few years ago was to introduce acoustics for registered skeet events. Didn't Nottingham and Distrct GC try them a while back?

On the one hand it's a good idea but I fear it'll price the smaller grounds out the game. Canterbury systems are around £800 per layout and if it's anything like trap, once some grounds use them shooters won't go to ones that don't.

 

[Ray]

In America shooting NSSA Skeet for last year or so, they use the Briley Wand system whereby the referee presses the button to arm the wand, then

it's waiting for the shooter to call for the bird, and most times it does work, however last year they had problems with it, rain getting into the system and many shooters

not wanting to use it, so the option was given to all shooters whether they wanted the ref to use it or not.

Because it's in the early stages and there will be some problems to iron out, also the cost factor at $325 each - not yet available in the UK yet.

Here are some videos of it being used and details.

http://www.mattarelliusa.com/hightechvoicerelease.html

 

[Julesy]

It wasn't us Jan - I think it was at Doveridge, not sure if they are still in use or not.

They would be a problem for us as our layouts are multifunctional - we certainly could not use the same layout for skeet and DTL if there are acoustics all over the layout.

 

[Julesy]

Ray - Where has the Facebook post gone? It has disappeared :fie:

 

[Ray]

Ray - Where has the Facebook post gone? It has disappeared :fie:

Jules, I deleted it, it was going a little off topic, also some head swelling from certain shooters !!! :crazy: