Definition of gun shoots where you look?

[Barney]

This might be a stupid question I get it’s where your eye is inline with the rib and gun fits you correctly but if you follow a crossing bird for example and use pull away method obviously you hard focus on the clay then pull forward for required lead. But my question is where you pulled forward wasn’t where you were looking as you are focusing on clay. So what does a gun that shoots where you look actually mean or Am I overthinking sorry if this is a stupid question

 

[Gavin]

I'd say your over thinking  it..... gun shoot where you look   is more of a gun fit thing than actually shooting. There's many different opinions, stare at the bird and only the bird  is what you will hear most.....put i think most people actually look to the lead when pulling the trigger and not the bird.  So the gun is shooting where they look 

 

[Will Hewland]

The where you look thing refers IMO to accuracy of fit, you being comfortable with how the gun moves, plus any compensation you have learned to build in. Mainly a factor on straight going away targets, where you have to touch the muzzle on to the clay to make a kill. It’s about being able to place the gun easily at a simple no-lead target. Usually any gun “shoots where you look” once you’re used to it as long as the fit isn’t ridiculous.

On a long crosser you don’t look down the gun at all; you are looking off to the side whenever there is lead needed. (So all that perfect pattern plate work is superfluous on long targets). You LOOK at the clay (with the centre of your eye) but you SEE the muzzle position in the wider view and see the lead.

 

[Westward]

I think the 'Shoots where you look expression' is pretty silly.  It may have origins in trap shooting where lead is close to non existent but surely what you want for sporting type disciplines is a gun that shoots where you point it.

Whether or not you see the lead gap and if you do, in what way you see it, is a topic that Americans seem to obsess over. There have been 70 or 80 page threads about it on Shotgunworld.

A well known instructor once made the point to me as someone who's naturally analytical that there's nothing scientific or technical about using a shotgun.

 

[Barney]

Thanks guys it makes sense with going away stuff as mentioned just wondered about crossing birds etc and how you see lead that's a minefield like westward said goes into many pages

 

[Salopian]

Americans will tell you to Hard Focus , Brits will tell you to see the lead.

 

[Hamster]

Essentially it means the gun shoots to point of aim in a static sense, if for instance you pick up a gun that happens to shoot high and left on a pattern plate or simple away target then for you it doesn't shoot where you look. 

 

[MartynB]

To me it’s when you look at a static point gun down ,  mount the gun on it ,fire ,  and the shot charge arrives where it should do .  I’ve had stocks fitted by Nigel Teague and Brian  Webster , both used lasers as part of the overall process which showed repeatedly that my guns were not shooting where I was looking . Their adjustments corrected this . 

 

[Barney]

Still pretty new to it all started a year ago and just jumped in shooting reg comps I find if I hard focus I have no idea what lead I gave great when you hit but miss and I’m asking myself where I went wrong but got no base to go from. I’m trying shooting to see the lead more but can fall into trap of almost barrel watching and focus goes off the clay.

I spoke to Brett and going to go to brierly guns and have ago on there laser fit I have never pattern plated a gun before but feel I should

 

[chippy]

My gun shoots exactly where I look. Unfortunately I don't always look in the correct place.

 

[danq]

bang away at a pattern plate you will son see and understand whats being said

 

[Cosmicblue]

I think it's just experience Barney, some targets are nigh on impossible to hit if you have to think about as a set of actions and a known amount of lead.   For myself and others too I suspect I have a mental library of 'sight pictures', so very often now I'll enter the cage and 'know' what's required to get the kill - just comes with experience and that takes time (I'm 10 years into it now, starting late in life).

 

[Barney]

I think it's just experience Barney, some targets are nigh on impossible to hit if you have to think about as a set of actions and a known amount of lead.   For myself and others too I suspect I have a mental library of 'sight pictures', so very often now I'll enter the cage and 'know' what's required to get the kill - just comes with experience and that takes time (I'm 10 years into it now, starting late in life).

Yes I agree having those sight pictures like you say takes a fair while and experience but it will come.

 

[chippy]

I think it's just experience Barney, some targets are nigh on impossible to hit if you have to think about as a set of actions and a known amount of lead.   For myself and others too I suspect I have a mental library of 'sight pictures', so very often now I'll enter the cage and 'know' what's required to get the kill - just comes with experience and that takes time (I'm 10 years into it now, starting late in life).

Iam sure that someone goes into my library on Saturday nights and moves the books around.

 

[Oldblaster]

l think you are talking about shooting to point of aim, put a dot on the pattern plate and shoot, if the pattern is central all around the dot then you are shooting where you look. In practice if you take your eye off the target and look at the barrel, you will miss behind.

 

[MartynB]

I spoke to Brett and going to go to brierly guns and have ago on there laser fit I have never pattern plated a gun before but feel I should

The good thing about ( some  of ) the laser systems is that you can get the results straight to a PC and see a graphical representation of the “pattern” and point of impact v aim and the operator can discount any obviously  poor mounts  ( which in themselves tell you something ) You can also In a relatively short period of time fire enough “shots “ to make sure that the results are representative.  

The system BK Webster uses can even give you simulated clays on a projected screen . 

 

[Salopian]

All of these topics surely are centred around the fact that the OP and I and others are concerned about missing?

For instance , shoot at a simultaneous pair , first target smashed , central, no problem, second target is now 40 yards away edge on , we shoot at it and miss, (regularly!)

So now the doubt creeps in , is second barrel shooting to point of aim ? does my gun fit me ? did I lift my head? and a multitude of questions all without answers , unless we slow down and think. Many , many of us will unthinkingly shoot at a very distant target with a very open choke which by the time the pattern reaches that target is very open , you may well be central on it but be unlucky enough to have the edge on clay slip away.Lasers and Pattern plates will only identify static aimed shots , and we all know , you don't aim a shotgun , you point it at what you wish to hit.

Shoot it often , both barrels at a straight going away target , build confidence in shooting your gun at what you are pointing at , use enough choke and a suitable cartridge that you know works.

 

[MartynB]

I disagree with the part about a static aimed shot .  IMHO The benefit  of the laser fit , and / or pattern plate is to ensure that when you look at a static point , then  you mount and fire from gun down ,  the POI is  identified in relation to what you are looking at  . If indeed you take a static aimed shot ( i.e. “rifle”  it ) it will not tell you much more than the pattern density and distribution . I look upon the gun fit as being a datum , in as much as it can identify  a variable , which once it  discounted or adjusted is one thing that can be put to the back of your mind for ever . Some people can shoot around any gun , my eyesight makes that a very difficult proposition for me on a standard cast stock . 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

(So all that perfect pattern plate work is superfluous on long targets)

Not at all.  The gun is still shooting where you are looking and an effective pattern size for the distance is still worth knowing.

Americans will tell you to Hard Focus , Brits will tell you to see the lead.

My guns fit to shoot to POA - all of them.  I shoot both eyes open and use the classic Churchill focus on the target and swing-thu method.  I never see a lead.  I know that when I first started shooting shotguns I used one eye, aimed, and saw the lead.  Doesn't happen now.  Now its just see the target shoot the target.  I suspect that is the case for most games since target speeds don't allow much time to do the calculation.  For me at any rate.

YMMV