Difference between Trap gun and sporting

[bigolbear]

Hi Guys 

can the collected wisdom please explain to me the difference between a Trap gun  and a Sporting gun , Both have 32 inch barrels Bothe have multi choke , Both have back board barrels , the two guns in question are the Miroku MK70 and the Mk 38, I picked both up yesterday and I couldn't tell the difference  both latest Models made in 2011 ZZ 

 

[Jonny English]

Its mainly with how high they shoot, traditionally a sporter should shoot flat and a trap should hoot high. This mainly comes from a lower or higher comb. Othet variations are rib set up, barrel selector set up. These are all subtle differences really. You can shoot each discipline with the other gun but its just easier with the correct one.

 

[Les53]

In general trap guns normally have higher stocks and will normally have tight chokes.

 

[Hotshot100]

The comb on a trap gun is also usually more parallel to the rib than a sporter which helps to keep the head down on the comb without dropping the head down.

Of course a lot of really good shots now use trap guns for sporting for the same reason. I actually used my XTR trap gun for the first time for sporting today and was surprised at how easy it seemed to make it ,although I have got the rear of the adjustable comb raised up on my sporter ,so probably not a lot of difference between the two.

 

[chippy]

And dont forget trap guns have a thick soft rubber recoil pad on the stock.which makes it much more comfy if you fall asleep leaning on it in the middle of a competition :girlcrazy:

 

[Andy S]

Sporting guns in general shoot their pattern as 50/50, i.e. 50% above centre and 50% below, Trap guns are generally set up to shoot their pattern as 60/40 i.e. 60% above centre and 40% below, as trap targets as are shoot in general on the rise.

Was the MK38 a Trap gun as they also make it as a sporter, where as the MK70 is a sporting gun. MK38 Trap guns normally have a Beaver tail fore end, which is wider, where a sporter will have a slim fore end.

 

[jake.keeling]

I don't think 60/40 is high enough to worry about. I reckon there are people shooting trap guns at sporting that are 80/20. I do because I don't want to swap POI between Trap and Sporting.

 

[RobertBeard]

There are a regular flow of Miroku MK 38 trap guns that have been teagued or otherwise sporterised on Guntrader.

Why is this?

I am wondering if the higher parallel comb on the trap gun is the main reason for this as otherwise why go to the expense of getting rid of fixed chokes for multi chokes which is expensive.

My son tried my Beretta adjustable comb stock yesterday and his head was leaning over too far towards the stock and he obviously will need a higher stock to enable him to keep his head upright and eyes level or is it more that he will need more cast than me?

I was thinking that maybe he would be better off with a higher combed gun like a Miroku trap MK38.  We have yet to go looking as he has not long had his SGC.  I just wondered if I am on the right lines.

Having won the masterclass at Coleys at the Growler we are going back and it may well be a good place to get good advice and lots of guns for him to try to get a good fit.  As a beginner Phil has already offered him a more suitable course of lessons than a masterclass which would be OTT for him at his current level of experience.

 

[Jonny English]

The mk38 tends to be popular for sporterising because of several things:

Its generally awesome, and cracking value for money,

People like the beaver tail forend over a schnabel,

The barrells are lighter than on the sporter so balance is closer to the hinge pin.

Some people like a sporter to shoot a touch high, the sporter is very flat.

 

[Hotshot100]

There are a regular flow of Miroku MK 38 trap guns that have been teagued or otherwise sporterised on Guntrader.

Why is this?

I am wondering if the higher parallel comb on the trap gun is the main reason for this as otherwise why go to the expense of getting rid of fixed chokes for multi chokes which is expensive.

My son tried my Beretta adjustable comb stock yesterday and his head was leaning over too far towards the stock and he obviously will need a higher stock to enable him to keep his head upright and eyes level or is it more that he will need more cast than me?

I was thinking that maybe he would be better off with a higher combed gun like a Miroku trap MK38.  We have yet to go looking as he has not long had his SGC.  I just wondered if I am on the right lines.

Having won the masterclass at Coleys at the Growler we are going back and it may well be a good place to get good advice and lots of guns for him to try to get a good fit.  As a beginner Phil has already offered him a more suitable course of lessons than a masterclass which would be OTT for him at his current level of experience.

You are on the right lines Robert. The reason for Teaguing a trap gun is that they are normally bored 3/4 & Full which is far too tight for most sporting shooters. Coleys certainly have a huge stock of guns so would be a very good place to try before you buy.

Something else that's just struck me about your son, has he been checked for eye dominance? Some times the reason for leaning the head across the stock is that they are shooting off the right shoulder and trying to look down the rib with the left eye, or vice versa. Certainly worth checking if you haven't already done so.

 

[RobertBeard]

You are on the right lines Robert. The reason for Teaguing a trap gun is that they are normally bored 3/4 & Full which is far too tight for most sporting shooters. Coleys certainly have a huge stock of guns so would be a very good place to try before you buy.

Something else that's just struck me about your son, has he been checked for eye dominance? Some times the reason for leaning the head across the stock is that they are shooting off the right shoulder and trying to look down the rib with the left eye, or vice versa. Certainly worth checking if you haven't already done so.

Thanks for the thought but he's been a county standard pistol shooter for some years but wants to give it up so that he can come clay shooting with his Dad!  Eye dominance has therefore already been established but it serves as a useful reminder to get it checked in case it has changed but he should be well aware of eye dominance issues.

I should have said above but there have been many comments about GMK importing Beretta's with low stock versions only and not any high stock versions other than adjustables.  

When are they or Beretta going to realise that they are losing sales because of this?

 

[RobertBeard]

The mk38 tends to be popular for sporterising because of several things:

Its generally awesome, and cracking value for money,

People like the beaver tail forend over a schnabel,

The barrells are lighter than on the sporter so balance is closer to the hinge pin.

Some people like a sporter to shoot a touch high, the sporter is very flat.

Thanks for this but you don't mention the higher trap comb which was what I was hoping would also be a good reason as GMK don't seem to want to import the Berettas' with higher combs.

 

[Jonny English]

The higher comb is what makes it shoot higher in my last item of comment, but even the trap guns don't always shoot mega high. My dad just bought a used adjustable comb trap gun for sporting and he's had to jack it up over 1/2 and inch to get it to shoot 70/30. A trap gun isn't forced to shoot high for everyone, so trying one first is essential. Comb thickness and lots of other things all come into play. My dad was lucky his was adjustable or he'd have been stuck with a gun that didn't fit.

 

[RobertBeard]

The higher comb is what makes it shoot higher in my last item of comment, but even the trap guns don't always shoot mega high. My dad just bought a used adjustable comb trap gun for sporting and he's had to jack it up over 1/2 and inch to get it to shoot 70/30. A trap gun isn't forced to shoot high for everyone, so trying one first is essential. Comb thickness and lots of other things all come into play. My dad was lucky his was adjustable or he'd have been stuck with a gun that didn't fit.

I can understand this I think.  You get yourself a high comb to look down on the rib and so shoot high but my point of concern is that with my adjustable comb already set 1 quarter inch high for me, my son's head still seems to be canted at about 30 degrees over to the right and "hunched over" to get his head on the stock and looking down the rib.

I was assuming that he needs a higher combed stock to overcome this but could it also be cast or perhaps I need to look at the number of fingers gap between his eye and right hand on the stock in case he does not have that relationship right.

I am not trying to be an expert but just to be informed so that when he is looking at guns I can hopefully stop him buying something unsuitable.  Hopefully this won't be an issue at somewhere reputable like Coleys but I just want to be as informed as I should be to help him.

 

[Andy S]

Robert have a look on here and you can compare the stock dimentions for the different models:

http://browning.eu/miroku/products/?level=3&lang=en&group1=1&group2=1&group3=1

Get your sons eye's checked, even if he was/is a county pistol shoot, I have done 10M Air pistol shooting and if I remember correctly your can use eye blanking devices so the other eye is effectively closed.

Use your time at Ian Coley's wisely try and get your son to use different makes of guns as they all handle and feel different.

 

[RobertBeard]

Thanks Andy

The Miroku website is where I have been coming from in the hope that a trap stock will fit him better than a sporter stock as they are obviously higher than a sporter stock.

However I am still concerned about cast and where his head is in relation to his right hand which I have not yet noticed.  We shoot together infrequently so things come to mind after I have seen him with my gun in his hands.

He tried a Browning 525 lightweight game gun from a fellow member at the club and hated it as it was far to light with great recoil.

 

[Hotshot100]

Miroku and Browning do offer an adjustable comb trap gun. Might be the way to go. You don't mention if your son is of a different build to you!!

 

[RobertBeard]

I think he follows after his Dad but has not yet caught up with me weight wise.  We both played prop at rugby.  I'm a 2 or 3 inches taller at 6ft 1inch but other than that I would say that we are similar build.  I'm too fat and he's a fit 36 year old!

 

[Jonny English]

I think you need some profession fitting help from a gunsmith or a coach.  From what you describe I don't think lifting the comb is going to help, if he is canting his head over the stock to get aligned correctly, either he needs more cast so his head is straight up and in line or he needs the comb lower so that it goes down under his cheek further and his cheek is on the slimmer part of the stock.  Picking the comb up may push his head even further away from alignment.