EJ Churchill Swinton Estate

[Hamster]

Unfortunately it's priced beyond the normal club shooter in the North and to make the membership fee back you'd need to be shooting around 75 clays every week for the year. 

We've been crying out for grounds in the North to put on registered events as there's so few, just can't get my head around Thursday's. I can't take the time off work so will have to miss out. It will be interesting to see if after the first few comps if they continue to get the entries.

Mid week reg shoots rely on clientele who are either retired on good pensions, business owners, self employed tradesmen or those who work in retail on Saturday and Sundays thus able to take days off during the week but agree there is definitely an entry fee beyond which even those people will shy away from. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

I 'Lost' one yesterday. #Someone# left the sodding thing out and unsecured. North Wales wind turned it to scrap aluminium. The better part of 800 competition priced clays lost! ( It was a swanky umbrella! ) 

Im on essex/suffolk border so i don't think it was yours ...

 

[Lloyd]

My god! And folk think it's grim up north! 

PM.

Think of the cost of a lesson. Premier grounds are commanding over £160 for an hour /100 clays and shells.

My usual haunt is less than 1/2 that price, which is why it’s my usual haunt.

I’m a bit lacking in education when it comes to the costs of running registered shoots and why it’s not as viable in the north as it is in the south. Can you folks help me out with this?

Clay targets cost around 7 to 8 pence each to buy at the rate of 8000 per pallet (from information I can find). With cost of traps, grounds maintenance on top, this would be the same cost as running practice I’d think. So the additional cost I suppose must come from staffing requirements?

I’m convinced there must be a solution to the problem. I’m sure folks from the south would travel north to enter competitions. 

I have a feeling that starting with the CPSA, the sport as a whole is lacking in vision and organisation 

 

[perazman]

I'm convinced folk from down south WOULDN'T travel north! There's no need for them to.

I took clays seriously in my youth and reached AA in sporting but the reality of a round trip of circa 5 hours every weekend eventually sapped my enthusiasm and bank balance.

The funny thing is that the casual/club clay scene up north seems to thrive.

All the small grounds I frequent seem well attended.

PM.

 

[Will Hewland]

Way too many good sporting shoots in the south to make a northern trip attractive to more than very few, very occasionally. The Northern product will have to suit the locals for sure, either by reducing prices or making them feel its worth it somehow. 

 

[paul b]

The cost diesel is a factor in choosing the ground you shoot aswell!

I have a choice of 2 good midweek practice grounds both around 20/30 min drive ,now one is less money per clay but costs more in fuel to get there and the other more per clay but less in fuel so in reality both cost the same.

There is a midweek reg in the north mids but doesn't get the numbers of the southern shoots,and if memory serves i think steve lovat did try some at garlands not sure why he stopped but there's definitely a big difference between north and south where disposable income is concerned.

 

[Will Hewland]

The cost diesel is a factor in choosing the ground you shoot aswell!

I have a choice of 2 good midweek practice grounds both around 20/30 min drive ,now one is less money per clay but costs more in fuel to get there and the other more per clay but less in fuel so in reality both cost the same.

There is a midweek reg in the north mids but doesn't get the numbers of the southern shoots,and if memory serves i think steve lovat did try some at garlands not sure why he stopped but there's definitely a big difference between north and south where disposable income is concerned.

Steve Lovatt at Garlands is on regularly and does well. I assume he charges £40 or so. But real northerners will say Garlands isn’t North. I say it’s in Scotland. 

 

[paul b]

Ive missed the adds for midweek garlands reg comps,didnt think he still did them,and yes garlands is definitely more midlands than north.

 

[Will Hewland]

Ive missed the adds for midweek garlands reg comps,didnt think he still did them,and yes garlands is definitely more midlands than north.

Apologies Paul.. Didn’t read carefully. Sunday.

 

[Lloyd]

Anything south of Cheshire is southern to me. And I’m not convinced about Cheshire either !

I grew up in a small village between Wigin (Wigan) Bowtun (Bolton) and Preston.

Down ‘ere they say buss instead of buzz and baughth instead of bath

Between 2007 and 2014 I used to travel fortnightly from Truo in Cornwall to home. I then moved to Wiltshire and last year Northamptonshire, so I guess I kind of got used to long drives. My daily commute is 40 miles each way.

I’m not sure I concur with the available disposable income to be honest. House prices and thus mortgages swallow a lot of income and most things are more expensive that up north. Some of the most cash strapped folks I know live in London. I actually once turned down a job in London paying £30k more a year as I’d have been worse off!

 

[Garwood]

Think of the cost of a lesson. Premier grounds are commanding over £160 for an hour /100 clays and shells.

My usual haunt is less than 1/2 that price, which is why it’s my usual haunt.

I’m a bit lacking in education when it comes to the costs of running registered shoots and why it’s not as viable in the north as it is in the south. Can you folks help me out with this?

Clay targets cost around 7 to 8 pence each to buy at the rate of 8000 per pallet (from information I can find). With cost of traps, grounds maintenance on top, this would be the same cost as running practice I’d think. So the additional cost I suppose must come from staffing requirements?

I’m convinced there must be a solution to the problem. I’m sure folks from the south would travel north to enter competitions. 

I have a feeling that starting with the CPSA, the sport as a whole is lacking in vision and organisation 

You need a referee for each stand which is 10+ people to pay for starters.Hth.

 

[DavidJ]

Churchill's price for 100 registered at Swinton is acceptable, I've heard £35 BO. The registered shoots that do happen in the North East are well subscribed, they just happen so infrequently.

Garlands would be nice but it's 6.5hrs travel in total.

Orston is getting on for 6hrs.

Old Glossop is 5hrs.

 

[westley]

 paid 43p a clay last week, it was nice but I cannot see why that expensive but nobody is forced to pay those prices

I presume that is INCLUSIVE with cartridges then  ??         

 

[Lloyd]

I paid 43p a clay last week, it was nice but I cannot see why that expensive but nobody is forced to pay those prices

I can see a few reasons why it’s the price it is. 
To get a return on investment. I’d expect to pay more at a grounds that has laid pathways, undercover stands, exemplary facilities.

To reduce demand. It may sound counter intuitive, but I’ve always priced products at the high end. This means fewer sold, but also means fewer customers to ship to, fewer staff needed to handle those fewer customers and lowering costs, equals bigger margins. Profit is sanity, turnover is vanity.

This I turn may pitch at a more affluent clientele, to which additional product at higher margins can be up-sold, e.g. clothing, guns, accessories, £5 coffee and £5 cake

 

[Garwood]

I can see a few reasons why it’s the price it is. 
To get a return on investment. I’d expect to pay more at a grounds that has laid pathways, undercover stands, exemplary facilities.

To reduce demand. It may sound counter intuitive, but I’ve always priced products at the high end. This means fewer sold, but also means fewer customers to ship to, fewer staff needed to handle those fewer customers and lowering costs, equals bigger margins. Profit is sanity, turnover is vanity.

This I turn may pitch at a more affluent clientele, to which additional product at higher margins can be up-sold, e.g. clothing, guns, accessories, £5 coffee and £5 cake

Commonsense approach,no mileage in being a busy fool!!!....although there are plenty around.

 

[Rupert]

Im giving it a go, booked for 100 reg at the end of the month.

 

[Nimbusgb]

Think of the cost of a lesson. Premier grounds are commanding over £160 for an hour /100 clays and shells.

My usual haunt is less than 1/2 that price, which is why it’s my usual haunt.

I’m a bit lacking in education when it comes to the costs of running registered shoots and why it’s not as viable in the north as it is in the south. Can you folks help me out with this?

Clay targets cost around 7 to 8 pence each to buy at the rate of 8000 per pallet (from information I can find). With cost of traps, grounds maintenance on top, this would be the same cost as running practice I’d think. So the additional cost I suppose must come from staffing requirements?

I’m convinced there must be a solution to the problem. I’m sure folks from the south would travel north to enter competitions. 

I have a feeling that starting with the CPSA, the sport as a whole is lacking in vision and organisation 

Rib Eye steak is about £12 / Kilo wholesale. So why does your 300 gram steak ( £3 retail ) cost you £15 - £25 in a regular restaurant  ( Oh, that's a place where you go to eat, where people cook for you and serve you, You get a set table, no your lap in front of the TV, in pleasant atmosphere with alcohol on sale too. Oh and afterwards they clear away and do the washing up!    you may remember those   )

You need a reasonable return on your investment in traps, electronics and a basic Point of Sale system. ( this is not a shoot in a farmers field ) Clubhouse? Toilets?  ( 2 seperate ones remember ) The cost of keeping a parking lot for say 200 or more cars in a reasonable state is going to make you gasp. Even if it's just a cleared piece of ground with gravel on it. Grounds are regularly down private tracks that need some sort of maintenance.  A couple of quad bikes or gators. Power reticulation or perhaps even a generator system. A shed for maintenance and storage ( oh and a security system because scrotes love high value, resellable stuff stored in quiet locations away from populations ) You need a good 10 acres of ground for even a small shoot. You'll need insurance and some tame lawyers to put up with the constant stream of noise complaints and changing requirements from local councils. My guess, sucking my thumb is that you will need around a million quid of loose change and 10 acres plus of land to get into having a 'reasonable' organised, attractive ground capable of drawing the 'premiere' tag. It could be considered a high risk investment what with the whims of a legal system that favours one muppet who moves in next to an established ground and makes a noise complaint. If you are going to run registered shoots you need staff not just scorers ( 10 - 15 of those for the day ) but shop and ground staff. People that need paid holidays and sick leave and paternity and maternity leave.

Would a return of say 10% be reasonable on your capital? Add all the overheads and you need to sell about 3 million clays a year to just break even. That's a lot of shooting. 

Most of the Premier grounds publish annual accounts at companies house so you can go and sanity check this lot easily. 

The question is not 'why does it cost 35p a clay?' the question is more like 'Why does anyone get into the clay shooting business at all?'  

I live in North Wales and will happily drive 100 miles or 2 hours for a good registered shoot. ( I have little choice but to do so ) If there were more up here I'd support them, even at £35 p a clay but sporting doesn't have the support that it does down South. As for why Northerners won't pay the prices, well they are notoriously tight with their money. It's how they can afford to fill the car parks with Jags, Mercs, BMW's, Range rovers and other assorted hardware. 

Small club shoots are well supported as has been said. My local little shoot has 7 stands but puts on a 100 birder by swapping the targets at mid day and shooting two rounds. it gets 50 shooters on a Sunday but that's not going to make anyone rich, it's probably only just making ends meet. Places like Catton Hall are heaving when they run a registered shoot so there is the potential I'm sure. EJ's has obviously seen that potential and is giving it a good go. 

As for Southerners travelling up here, we'd rather you lot stay down there thank you!  

 

[Lloyd]

@Nimbusgb Prefect! Thank you. Shooting sure is cheap isn’t is?

 

[MartynB]

I always used to marvel at the old Villamoura gun club on the Algarve  ,  Sadly it closed about 12 years ago . The stone  and marble clubhouse was  like the reception of a 4* hotel . The prices at the time were the same as a UK farm shoot . An armoury to keep your kit , and your gun cleaned for you by the armourer . To cap it all a nice bar  , and a cold beer and sandwiches on the terrace during the lunchtime break . The weather was always perfect  , we were years behind over here .

I’m going ring EJC at Swinton  today and see if we can book for this weekend ,  
 

 

[DavidJ]

Im giving it a go, booked for 100 reg at the end of the month.

I just wish I could make a Thursday. The price for the registered is very good at £35.00 – Competition entries | £30.00 – Birds Only. 

Shooting Birds Only is cheaper than practice!