Rosso
Well-known member
So everyone who wants to vote leave Europe is a racist now are they. I find that remark offensive.
European Union
- Thread starter RobertBeard
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Don't make me Fk'n laugh bud! There was a referendum on Scottish independence an one of the guns held to the electorate's head was that " they would not be able to get membership of the EU as an independent nation they would have to re-negotiate a deal... which as we all know was as much sh*te them as it would be now. However the powerhouse that is the UK would not countenance the separation of the UK and fought a very bitter campaign to defeat the pro indy lobby.... and you are telling me that Scotland is nothing but a sponge for the UK powerhouse's money make your fk'n mind up will you are we work keeping or would rather we went. They say there is nothing worse than nationalist politics, or that is what you were telling the Scottish voters.... let me tell you there is absolutely nothing worse than listening to English nationalistic politics... and to think my father helped to fight a war against fascism. You and your knob head ilk is what makes the UK as bad as it is anyway don't let me take up your time I am sure you have some belt buckles and leather webbing to get polished up for the weekend march.
by the way 45% of everything made in the UK is exported to THE EU !
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Bebo
Well-known member
The suggestion that £1.3 billions worth of wine imported from France equates to nearly half a million jobs and that if we leave the EU those jobs will stay in the UK is laughable. Wine grown and made in the UK is mostly yuk and we'd never be in a position to produce that much ourselves, we just don't have the right conditions in most of this country to do so. We've got a few vineyards down in my neck of the woods, but they are very restricted in what they produce because of the soil and weather. We do some reasonable whites, particularly sparkling ones, but that's about it.
Similarly with fruit being imported from Spain and the related jobs. If we leave the EU are we suddenly going to get enough of a climate change that we can grow our own oranges, grapefruit and lemons?
And I'm sure that people will stop buying BMWs, Audi's and Mercedes if we leave the EU. We can bring back the Austin Allegro and make everyone with a Merc trade it in for one.
Similarly with fruit being imported from Spain and the related jobs. If we leave the EU are we suddenly going to get enough of a climate change that we can grow our own oranges, grapefruit and lemons?
And I'm sure that people will stop buying BMWs, Audi's and Mercedes if we leave the EU. We can bring back the Austin Allegro and make everyone with a Merc trade it in for one.
To be honest Bebo for the very little wine that is made in the UK.... some of it is actually very good! However I don't think that British wine growers would want to leave the EU anymore than many other British farmers would. A great deal of things that Britain does is good but let us not kid ourselves that Britain is some sort of economic powerhouse... in reality it never was its wealth came off the backs of virtual slave labour by old empire country workers. Britain rode the old empire countries ragged and we don't have those empire countries anymore, although there are many that think the countries Britain bleached the wealth out of cannot wait to be taken dry again! One thing missing from that propaganda poster is the fact that there are a great many job shirkers in the UK turning white at the thought of actually doing a day's work.
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Resource-wise the UK is in a similar situation to Japan. Unfortunately for the UK the inculcated economic model is deficient. Not that the Jap model might prove successful in the UK since it does depend on an involved workforce which may be contrary to management and labor alike hahaha
Always good to know that tho the details may vary, the world wide visitation of the sins of the fathers seems nicely consistent.
besta luck
Always good to know that tho the details may vary, the world wide visitation of the sins of the fathers seems nicely consistent.
besta luck
RobertBeard
Moderator
If we don't produce much then how do we manage to pay Brussels our net contribution to the EU of £50m daily?
At the end of the day what is so fundamentally different now in terms of trade than what existed before the EU existed.
What will change if we leave? We will still import German cars and Italian shotguns they will want us to buy them and it will be the same on both sides with wine, whisky and everything else. They will still want us to go on holiday there and vice versa.
When I travel in the EU I see loads of wonderful facilities like public swimming pools for example such that every village has one and we have just managed to build one 50m pool and diving complex in Plymouth for the whole south west.
It is a socialist organisation whereby we are paying for all the poor countries to raise their game and some of those, such as Greece are not pulling their weight and there are other that are close to being in trouble which we will end up subsidising in addition to the former communist countries that are now in the EU.
Meantime we are stifled with excessive regulation and bureaucracy that we seem to be obsessed with implementing whilst the French just seem to ignore anything that they don't like!
At the end of the day what is so fundamentally different now in terms of trade than what existed before the EU existed.
What will change if we leave? We will still import German cars and Italian shotguns they will want us to buy them and it will be the same on both sides with wine, whisky and everything else. They will still want us to go on holiday there and vice versa.
When I travel in the EU I see loads of wonderful facilities like public swimming pools for example such that every village has one and we have just managed to build one 50m pool and diving complex in Plymouth for the whole south west.
It is a socialist organisation whereby we are paying for all the poor countries to raise their game and some of those, such as Greece are not pulling their weight and there are other that are close to being in trouble which we will end up subsidising in addition to the former communist countries that are now in the EU.
Meantime we are stifled with excessive regulation and bureaucracy that we seem to be obsessed with implementing whilst the French just seem to ignore anything that they don't like!
"When I travel in the EU I see loads of wonderful facilities like public swimming pools for example such that every village has one and we have just managed to build one 50m pool and diving complex in Plymouth for the whole south west."
Planet Earth calling you what fabled land are you talking about here ? It has nothing to do with France, Spain, Italy or any EU country I know of. I don't mind people being passionate about their particular view ... but don't start making things up that don't exist. One thing I can tell you is, contrary to what you may think, that the people of the UK pay less tax than the people do in France for example and you cannot get something for nothing... but the good old conservatives would like to make even less tax payable.... strangely enough by those who can most easily afford to pay it.
I don't think anybody has suggested that the UK does not make much ... but 45% of what they do make goes straight to EU countries.
"Meantime we are stifled with excessive regulation and bureaucracy that we seem to be obsessed with implementing whilst the French just seem to ignore anything that they don't like!
Ha Ha Ha! there you go again you just cannot help yourself those nasty Frenchies at it again eh? Oh how you must long for the day when we could send an army to retake Calais.... for Engerland!!!
Planet Earth calling you what fabled land are you talking about here ? It has nothing to do with France, Spain, Italy or any EU country I know of. I don't mind people being passionate about their particular view ... but don't start making things up that don't exist. One thing I can tell you is, contrary to what you may think, that the people of the UK pay less tax than the people do in France for example and you cannot get something for nothing... but the good old conservatives would like to make even less tax payable.... strangely enough by those who can most easily afford to pay it.
I don't think anybody has suggested that the UK does not make much ... but 45% of what they do make goes straight to EU countries.
"Meantime we are stifled with excessive regulation and bureaucracy that we seem to be obsessed with implementing whilst the French just seem to ignore anything that they don't like!
Ha Ha Ha! there you go again you just cannot help yourself those nasty Frenchies at it again eh? Oh how you must long for the day when we could send an army to retake Calais.... for Engerland!!!
Bebo
Well-known member
Thing is, I'm undecided on whether I would vote in or out, as I haven't looked into it enough to make my own mind up. It's just that those Leave.EU posters are full of so much nonsense I can't help but sound like I'm pro-EU. They don't so themselves any favours.
The issue of whether England... oopps sorry the UK stay or go will be decided purely by how much fear can be heaped upon the electorate. Of course that cuts both ways but as an example of a good pro no sitting on the fence exit voter think UKIP, NF, BNF or the free England now group... if it exists. The others who are undecided will vote after being brow beaten into submission by one side or the other but for my money the pro exit vote lobby is lead by a bunch of xenophobic rightwingers. I for one was very surprised recently when the right wing nationalist group and agenda was totally rejected here in France by the French electorate.... yet it came on the back the worst IS led terrorist acts perpetrated in the EU. I doff my cap to the French people for having the intelligence to understand what is going on in the world.
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jwpzx9r I find your stance a little confusing, of course England is going to decide as that is where the greatest number of voters reside and have the ability to out vote the other countries of the U.K., however the vote is going to be the UK as a whole 1 vote per person.
The main arguments for the pro independent Scotland were the same arguments that are now being banded about by the leave Europe campaign.
Did you think the independent Scotland voters were lead by a bunch of xenophobic rightwingers?
There for me, is as I said before a tipping point to staying or leaving and you will always get extreme views on both sides but neither one of them will brow beat me.
I haven't decided yet but I know many who have and their reasons are the same as pro Scotland's independence. More control of own finances, less interference from a Parliament in another country etc. Even though in Scotland's case the rest of the UK they were leaving was one of there biggest trading partners.
It's not a dig a Scotland although the anti English rhetoric I heard from Salmond and co during the vote could quite easily have swayed me down that road. It's just how the pro leaving in both referendums are viewed differently.
The main arguments for the pro independent Scotland were the same arguments that are now being banded about by the leave Europe campaign.
Did you think the independent Scotland voters were lead by a bunch of xenophobic rightwingers?
There for me, is as I said before a tipping point to staying or leaving and you will always get extreme views on both sides but neither one of them will brow beat me.
I haven't decided yet but I know many who have and their reasons are the same as pro Scotland's independence. More control of own finances, less interference from a Parliament in another country etc. Even though in Scotland's case the rest of the UK they were leaving was one of there biggest trading partners.
It's not a dig a Scotland although the anti English rhetoric I heard from Salmond and co during the vote could quite easily have swayed me down that road. It's just how the pro leaving in both referendums are viewed differently.
shootinguru
Well-known member
The problem is that most of the votors on here cannot remember pre EU? The UK has been sh*t on by most of the EU member countries since we joined!
The UK is the second largest contributor to the EU and we recieve back a small percentage of our membership fees!
Red tape from the EU stifles us every way we turn costing us millions unnessesarily! The EU controls every aspect of our lives.
Herr Merkel has f***ed up Europe with the immigrants and if you don't want your children and grandchildren to become Muslims vote OUT!
The UK is the second largest contributor to the EU and we recieve back a small percentage of our membership fees!
Red tape from the EU stifles us every way we turn costing us millions unnessesarily! The EU controls every aspect of our lives.
Herr Merkel has f***ed up Europe with the immigrants and if you don't want your children and grandchildren to become Muslims vote OUT!
Nimbusgb
Well-known member
Unfortunately most of that is a distortion of reality.
First of all we get 66% of our contribution straight back in the form of the rebate. After the rebate In 2013 we ended up paying in £17 Bn, we got back £6.5Bn so the EU cost us £10Bn in direct contributions. A drop in a bucket in terms of our GDP, we are going to spend £42Bn on a friggin train line and £100Bn, yes ONE HUNDRED BILLION on a submarine and missiles god help us we never, ever have to even *think* of using. in return we got to NOT have to maintain a massive border force, a massive armed defence force, simple, guaranteed access to markets, freedom to come and go to a continent and membership of a club that multiplies our worldwide influence immeasurably. £10Bn, I'd pay twice that for the return we get.
As for the 'red tape' .... the Brits just about *invented* H&S, bureaucracy and Red Tape. Where a Spaniard, Greek, Italian, Frenchman or German will apply the rule of *law* somewhat flexibly here in the UK stick-up-the-arse jobsworths will apply the letter of the law regardless of any common sense.
As for 'becoming Muslims' the attendance at the Church of England on any given Sunday continues to slide into oblivion. Rather apathetic really and pretty typical of attitudes, although how belief in some supernatural, sadistic deity has anything to do with Europe I know not.
The EU may not be perfect but cutting ourselves off from it is sheer idiocy.
And that's Frau Merkel not Herr ( although I get your inference!
)
shootinguru
Well-known member
I can see the end of the EU whether or not we vote out! The German banks are in the sh*t as is the French economy, the Greeks are being hounded again!
Border controls are being rebuilt, as for Turkey joining the EU? it will be finished before that happens!
Border controls are being rebuilt, as for Turkey joining the EU? it will be finished before that happens!
Well to be honest the more tender and thin skinned may have taken Mr Salmond that way... but understand that some would interpret what was said that way when the pro status quo lobby are by and large English MP's who have the well being of English people at heart and were telling the people of Scotland in no uncertain terms how, as an independent nation, piss poor we would be. In the case of the EU ref the protagonists are both supposed have the same electorates at their collective hearts... yet we still see this polarity towards freeing England from the EU and the invading Muslim hordes.
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It is very naive to think Mr Salmond didn't openly tap into the strong anti English vote that exists in some parts of Scotland, just as the pro leaving Europe are trying to tap into the anti Muslim / immigrant vote that exist in parts of the UK. You call the critics of one stance tender skinned and the supporters of the other fascists, as I say it's a very confusing stance for you to have.
Mr Salmond based his funding of an independent Scotland on very optimistic oil prices and their continuous rise, considering the state of current oil prices maybe the English MP's had a point about an independent Scotland's finances under Salmond. That's not to say an independent Scotland cannot work just the one Salmond offered as a 'you all get this free stuff and our oil will pay for it all vote for me'.
Scottish MP's frequently vote on English only issues that don't concern their Scottish electorate either to prove a point or just to be anti Tory, it's how politics is. Your stance that English MP's are looking after England only and Scottish MP's are looking after the UK as a whole is laughable. MP's will look after their local electorate as that's who they are ultimately answerable to in the next election.
Scottish MP's put what was best for their electorate first not the UK as a whole. If you supported Scottish independence then trying to criticise the behaviour of English MP's on this vote seems a bit hypocritical.
It's gone a bit off topic but I genuinely cannot see someone supporting Scottish independence then being so vocal about staying in Europe whilst criticising the tactics used by the out of Europe brigade.
The campaigns are being fought the same way.
