EvoComp stock suitability for FITASC

[Will Hewland]

Sadly our much missed contributor Hamster is no longer with us, but he swore by his PFS stock and he certainly didn't miss much on a reg sporting course.

But whilst I don't do much reffing these days - even without Covid - I have worked at 100s of reg sporting shoots and I have to say that in my experience, ergonomic stocks really are a rarity.

As for palm swells I dislike the intrusive ones, but the small swell that CGs have fit my hand sweetly and I like the positive location they provide.

Did his PFS stock have a grip hold? I didn’t think it did.

A friend of mine who is in AAA is shortly to receive his grip stock from Manuel Ricardo. I pressed him to think hard about if it was the right thing. He is defensive and used to shoot skeet with a Beretta with a grip stock and loved it. I’m not convinced, but let’s see how he gets on this summer with it..

 

[westley]

Sorry Ben, had to forego the wrist action to save the eyesight  !      

 

[balltrap]

No no palm

swell for me or on my clients guns. Being locked in on sporting is a major disadvantage. Shooting below feet then a 100ft driven your hand placement and wrist action needs to move 

My personal view on this is that the gun is a tool and how you hold the tool will reflect the outcome, a palm swell places the hand in the same position every time meaning you need to align your sight to the target and not the feel of the gun, moving your hand only changes the sight picture. 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

OK - - I'm gonna come outta retirement here for one more.

OK - I deleted this part

Nobody I know swings the gun with their arms.  Over the last 30-40 yrs or so I've only seen one shooter that left armed the gun with any success and I think he did it cos he was too heavy to move the body that quick on an erratic pigeon.  EVERY other one maintains a fixed relationship between the chest/shoulder/arms/head/gun and the gun is transported to the target by motion at the waist/knees/ankles(maybe).  Every lesson and every instructor I've known has made a massive point of preaching that.  Fixing the position of the gun in that relationship is critical as if it moves relative to the parts mentioned it is no longer under control.  How it can be presumed that a fixed hand position is somehow going to interfere with that critical alignment of upper body parts escapes me.

thanks for your attention, regular programming now returns

 

[Freddypip]

"EVERY other one maintains a fixed relationship between the chest/shoulder/arms/head/gun"

This is correct when moving the gun left to right but not when moving up and down. The neck & shoulders rotate - the neck obviously so - and the wrist provides the third point of interaction with the gun. Many shooters cheek will move on the stock and many will account for the movement in the shoulders by allowing some flexibility in the wrist. Our backs are not flexible enough do all of the up and down movement with rigid shoulders.

Everybody should get someone to video them whilst 'shooting' high & low birds - in fact all of the extremes - I have no doubt the vast majoity of shooters will find their wrist moves and consequently the hand slides on the grip (palm swell or not) to some degree - the extent may well rule out (or not) the use of a glove stock. If you have a flexible wrist the hand may not slide at all and a glove grip might work for you. Its easy to do a video at home during lockdown. Thats what your wife is for. I mean a video whilst you mount the gun not the other sort of video with your wife that seems to be popular when people get bored . . . .

 

[Wonko the Sane]

maybe for you

I just took the Evocomp/Mirage outta the safe to check.  I'm 78 and not to my knowledge anything special at all and if I mount the gun as usual +/-level I can move from full down muzzle to vertical (left and right) with no "rotation" anywhere but in my back.  Face/shoulders/hand/gun do not move or change relationship at all.

I suggest that you take better care of yourself or work on your gun mount

 

[Freddypip]

Get someone else to video it - What you think you do is not what you do.

If you can move the gun to look above your head without moving anything but your back I'm seriously impressed.

This is the CPSA method - apparently - other methods are available.



I might be missing something but there is insufficent movement in the instructors back to account for the gun movement he gets and its not alot of gun movement.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Actually I do know what I do.  Back and knee motion do it all.  simple physiology

Unfortunately I do not have the means to produce a vidi.  Watch some Oly skeet and you'll see how its done.  Simplicity itself.

happy to help

check this out and notice the stocks

 

[Freddypip]

Noted Wonko but again this is skeet and a gloved stock makes (alot of) sense when the movement is left/right etc. The OP asked about Fitasc etc and why gloved stocks don't seem to be so popular with those disciplines (if you can call them that).

Having said that - each to their own. If it works then it works. Its best if the OP tries it himself.

And - I've never had a gloved stock fitted to me. I've picked one up and used it but i expect trying someone elses is the worst thing to do. I think I can see the problems but you are right in saying they might not be real or a worry at all.

 

[DolphinCTC]

Hi, 

I wanted to buy a new 725 Adj Sporter, but I am now considering looking for decent used Browning/Beretta and having a custom stock made for it.

I like the idea of the EvoComp. It's ugly as hell, but the adjustability appeals to me. 

Does the grip design of the EvoComp lend itself to FITASC? It seems like it locks up the wrist, which leads to consistency when mounting the gun. The EvoComp seems to have a following within the skeet and trap community, but I'm struggling to find sporting clay shooters that talk about their experience.

Will the EvoComp grip work well with all the different target presentations in FITASC & Compak or am I better off with a more traditional stock design?  

Cheers
 

 

Hi, never seen one used on sporting and wouldn't do for me personally because I'd be forever fiddling with the thing and don't  like steeply raked grips let alone glove type  ones. Best thing is to try one and if you still fancy one go for  it!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

And - I've never had a gloved stock fitted to me. I've picked one up and used it but i expect trying someone elses is the worst thing to do.

Yes - just as would be trying another's custom stock.  And since it does locate your hand so positively the grip size is very important.  Slightly small is usable but too large takes the trigger finger too far back.  All of the other adjustments are just standard stuff and very simple to do if they are done in a reasonable sequence.

 

[nohoper]

hi guys am I losing the plot here if the hand gripping the stock moves wouldn’t the contact on the face and shoulder change I have watched some of the old sporting winners and have watched as the front hand moved along the forend to increase or decrease the gun speed especially in report pairs 

 

[k80ben]

hi guys am I losing the plot here if the hand gripping the stock moves wouldn’t the contact on the face and shoulder change I have watched some of the old sporting winners and have watched as the front hand moved along the forend to increase or decrease the gun speed especially in report pairs 

In all my years of shooting I’ve never seen anyone move their hand. I’ve seen shooters make nonsense videos about it but in a comp it never happens 

 

[vmax1010]

Have to say I move my fore hand back or forward an inch or so depending on the speed of the target at  the start of a pair but not for the second target of the pair 

 

[Luke_(NL)]

The "How to hit series" shows various presentations, including the dreaded 'below your feet' incoming targets and the teal presentations as per the above. I can't tell any difference in the hold and grip of the gun between them when comparing the two video's, but then I have no idea whether the CPSA ambassador has a proven track record in shooting. Is he doing it wrong?

Varying the grip on my shotgun for different presentations just doesn't feel right to me and even just trying it on a few stands is a sure way to start m(i/e)ssing with my head. 

 

[nohoper]

Hi Ben in my part of the world I watched the old lads do it some have english and british championships to there names one in particula4 always used the method on teal I could not master it myself .

 

[k80ben]

The "How to hit series" shows various presentations, including the dreaded 'below your feet' incoming targets and the teal presentations as per the above. I can't tell any difference in the hold and grip of the gun between them when comparing the two video's, but then I have no idea whether the CPSA ambassador has a proven track record in shooting. Is he doing it wrong?

Varying the grip on my shotgun for different presentations just doesn't feel right to me and even just trying it on a few stands is a sure way to start m(i/e)ssing with my head. 

The person in the video is just echoing a method set out by an association. Personally he isn’t a a competitive shooter. Moving your leading hand at any point is a bad idea 

 

[Will Hewland]

In my 'umble opinion, the leading hand should be in the best position to leave the arm and wrist comfortable. It tends to position the elbow bent a bit more open than 90 degrees. Preferably, the grip is somewhere towards the middle or end of the forend to avoid making the gun twitchy. When you see people almost holding the action, they either haven't learned to get comfortable or the gun doesn't fit. It is a common sight with ladies and kids when the stock is too long for them, or the gun is too heavy (possibly because they aren't used to holding it). 

For sure, moving the hand along the forend will usually affect the speed of the muzzle acceleration for those using swing-through. I once got a chap that blanked a stand to straight it just by moving his front hand forward, as it stopped him whipping past a quartering pair. But moving between shots on a report pair does sound like a brain screw that most of us just do not need..

 

[jwpzx9r]

As stated above. Being locked in is very very bad for sporting shooting. 

Not looking for an argument, never do with a world champion, but Vincent Hancock seems to do alright at Skeet and they shoot way faster gun down than any other shotgun discipline gun up or down. I think it is all about the individual what is one manes meat is another vegan delight

I can certainly see why being fixed before seeing the target in sporting may be not the best though but I was witness to someone telling another that there were only two positions where a gun could be mounted to be a successful trap shooter 

edit Sorry folks of course that should be Vincent Hancock 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I was witness to someone telling another that there were only two positions where a gun could be mounted to be a successful trap shooter

Good thing that you listened to me then innit?   :thumbsu: