Express Recipe Change?

[Geordieboy]

Okay then, so I shoot Fiocchi. Love'em. But periodically friends give me a box of shells to try (I'm good looking I reckon).  A year ago I was given a box of Express Power Golds to try.  Pleasantly surprised was I.  Very soft in the shoulder and with the 7.5 shot......shredded everything that was in front of me.  Loved them a lot.  Probably closest I've come to having a change of shell.  But that was last year.

My son recently ran out of cartridges and being the great Dad I am I popped in and bought him a slab of Power Golds the other week.  Shot them.  Still hard hitting......but a lot more recoil than I remember.  Quite a bit more harsh in fact. Not nice.  So said awesome English International friend gave me a box of Express Super comps.  Tried them and it was these that were very soft now!  Very Nice.....but big price tag.  Seems to me like Express had a winner on their hands and swapped recipes.  

As an added note.....I'm an Engineer.....or a fiddler whatever you wish to call me.  Cutting both shells open I found the Super Comp 7's  had shot in them nicely ranged between 8.5 shot and 6.5 shot. :???:  Quite an even  mix I may add.  The Power Golds 8's were a consistent 7.5 shot.

Something up in the Express Camp then?  I'll stick with my Fiocchis I reckon.

 

[perazman]

I can well believe they have changed the recipe. I posted on here a few years ago about how great Power Blues were. I was paying £160 a thou and they were lovely and smooth through a Perazzi game gun. A friend and I bought 6 thou between us with no issue. The next batch I bought kicked like hell to a point where after shooting 300 in a day I was bruised which has never happened before.

I happened to see my mate sometime after that and he asked me how I was getting on with them as he'd bought some more and couldnt stand the recoil. 

It can't be coincidence. 

PM.

 

[Hamster]

This is a very real problem with some cheaper shells which tend to start off thumpy then the manufacturer makes them softer and a while later when they re-brand (rebadge) the shell with a different colour case   all goes back to silly recoil. 

I used to shoot the original Express Super comps in a clear case years ago before they broke through the £100 barrier   and the recoil as well as break characteristics were pukka, have since largely shot Eley Superbs which at various points have either had the odd batch of thumpers or at one point when they changed the recipe and case colouring shot up the recoil scales to the point many stopped shooting them so they changed recipes again and the ones you can buy today are in my opinion as soft a 28g shell worthy of the name Competition. I recently had a go with the New Express Super Comps and they are too punchy now, I certainly wouldn't pay the £254 asking price. The Fiocchi FBlacks as well as pretty much most of their brand are very good too but too punchy with the exception of TT1/2's. 

I also now use a fair few Velocity+ (unfortunately only available in 7.5's) and the breaks are extremely good for the price which can be as little as £175, recoil wise not as good as Eley Superbs but way better than FBlacks. If anyone wants a genuinely sensible recoiling cartridge then the Eley Superb is my favourite but too pricey at £236.

George from Proper Cartridges rang me weeks ago with the promise of 3k shipment of 8's so myself and various mates could try them  well George one cannot get hooked on what one hasn't received as of yet ! And to think I was gonna do a fair and extensive test of them too to post here and on FB. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

This is a very real problem with some cheaper shells which tend to start off thumpy then the manufacturer makes them softer and a while later when they re-brand (rebadge) the shell with a different colour case   all goes back to silly recoil. 

I used to shoot the original Express Super comps in a clear case years ago before they broke through the £100 barrier   and the recoil as well as break characteristics were pukka, have since largely shot Eley Superbs which at various points have either had the odd batch of thumpers or at one point when they changed the recipe and case colouring shot up the recoil scales to the point many stopped shooting them so they changed recipes again and the ones you can buy today are in my opinion as soft a 28g shell worthy of the name Competition. I recently had a go with the New Express Super Comps and they are too punchy now, I certainly wouldn't pay the £254 asking price. The Fiocchi FBlacks as well as pretty much most of their brand are very good too but too punchy with the exception of TT1/2's. 

I also now use a fair few Velocity+ (unfortunately only available in 7.5's) and the breaks are extremely good for the price which can be as little as £175, recoil wise not as good as Eley Superbs but way better than FBlacks. If anyone wants a genuinely sensible recoiling cartridge then the Eley Superb is my favourite but too pricey at £236.

George from Proper Cartridges rang me weeks ago with the promise of 3k shipment of 8's so myself and various mates could try them  well George one cannot get hooked on what one hasn't received as of yet ! And to think I was gonna do a fair and extensive test of them too to post here and on FB. 

 That would be great to see.

 

[westley]

I bought 1000 Power Gold 24 gram about 3 months ago, I have around 100 left. They have been great, with no perceived recoil issues.  Back to the usual Cheddite 24's now though, they are a great cartridge at £177/1000.

 

[Geordieboy]

I bought 1000 Power Gold 24 gram about 3 months ago, I have around 100 left. They have been great, with no perceived recoil issues.  Back to the usual Cheddite 24's now though, they are a great cartridge at £177/1000.

Yes....but they are 24gram shells..........much lighter

....and recoils is a very individual perceived thing.  I think that F-blacks are soft! 

anyway....like I say....they aren't good enough now to justify their price tag and de-throne the Fiocchis just yet!!!

 

[David Paul Gag]

Yes....but they are 24gram shells..........much lighter

....and recoils is a very individual perceived thing.  I think that F-blacks are soft! 

anyway....like I say....they aren't good enough now to justify their price tag and de-throne the Fiocchis just yet!!!

Another Fiocchi lover

For quite a while now I've been shooting 24g F Black's  Italian 7.5s English 7s they are about 198-00 per 1000 and soft on my shoulder and hard on the target and not to pricey

Now I find these great on rangier targets but could not help but feel I needed a cartridge with a bit more spread and lead for targets up to 40 meters

Well a friend of mine suggested I try 28g Fiocchi TT1  UK 7.5s at approximately 180 per 1000 Now these are softer and cheaper  So I am using these for closer targets and the 24g F blacks for the rangier stuff

Just saying (cheaper & softer)

 

[westley]

Yes....but they are 24gram shells..........much lighter

....and recoils is a very individual perceived thing.  I think that F-blacks are soft! 

anyway....like I say....they aren't good enough now to justify their price tag and de-throne the Fiocchis just yet!!!

Well you are right about recoil being a   "very individual perceived thing"   and it is my perception that when recoil goes down, scores usually go up. That is not just with myself but having watched others, who have either tried a gas auto or lighter load and increased their score, then gone back to their usual thumpers and down went the scores again ! 

 

[Salopian]

This is an interesting topic.

A good friend has always used Express ( I think they were Pro Comp which have now been deleted from the Express range?) the new Super Comp have identical components apart from the case , but are more expensive and look prettier.

Another friend tells me he has dissected a Fiocchii FBlack and found it has identical components to a premium cartridge costing £50 more per thousand.

 

[Geordieboy]

I can tell you that the exact wad that is found in the Fblack. .....is also found in the Fiocchi Golden trap.  Both are very good on long targets. (In my gun) but £30 cheaper than golden trap. I've not seen that wad in another shell so if anybody knows what it's in....let me know.

The fiocchi F3 Piston has the same wad as Clever Sporting (Awesome shell).....but are £30+ cheaper and softer (to me).

I've carved up several Express shells and found the same wad in them from bottom to top of the range. Now don't get me wrong.....the wad is only 20% of the recipe. But the fiocchi shot size is consistent. Not several shot sizes in 1 cartridge.....

Regarding David Paul comment.....I use the F3 Piston shells out to 45m'ish. ... Then Fblack 7.5s beyond that. I've patterned them in my perazzi and I get nice compact spherical patterns a long way out.

Express are charging a lot of money for what appears to be a cost cutting shell with same wads and odd shot. Shame on them.

Another bloody fantastic shell is the Clever Magic RVS3. VERY SOFT. Excellent patterns with the cut wads. They are a half shot bigger than stated. 

I've not shot them in years but I witnessed shredding breaks through half choke in a Krieghoff using Eley Superb 8's the other day.

 

[David Paul Gag]

I can tell you that the exact wad that is found in the Fblack. .....is also found in the Fiocchi Golden trap.  Both are very good on long targets. (In my gun) but £30 cheaper than golden trap. I've not seen that wad in another shell so if anybody knows what it's in....let me know.

The fiocchi F3 Piston has the same wad as Clever Sporting (Awesome shell).....but are £30+ cheaper and softer (to me).

I've carved up several Express shells and found the same wad in them from bottom to top of the range. Now don't get me wrong.....the wad is only 20% of the recipe. But the fiocchi shot size is consistent. Not several shot sizes in 1 cartridge.....

Regarding David Paul comment.....I use the F3 Piston shells out to 45m'ish. ... Then Fblack 7.5s beyond that. I've patterned them in my perazzi and I get nice compact spherical patterns a long way out.

Express are charging a lot of money for what appears to be a cost cutting shell with same wads and odd shot. Shame on them.

Another bloody fantastic shell is the Clever Magic RVS3. VERY SOFT. Excellent patterns with the cut wads. They are a half shot bigger than stated. 

I've not shot them in years but I witnessed shredding breaks through half choke in a Krieghoff using Eley Superb 8's the other day.

Hi again  re  F 3's does anyone know who stocks them near Leicester 

Kibworth stocks some Fiocchi but not those.

 

[westley]

WWWHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT  we are being ripped off by a cartridge Company,  I find that very hard to believe  !   

 

[David Paul Gag]

Well you are right about recoil being a   "very individual perceived thing"   and it is my perception that when recoil goes down, scores usually go up. That is not just with myself but having watched others, who have either tried a gas auto or lighter load and increased their score, then gone back to their usual thumpers and down went the scores again ! 

Being an old bugger my self Westley I could not agree with you more 

 

[westley]

I have seen it so many times David. Anything that makes life easier is OK with me  !

 

[Jonny English]

Does anybody know if lyalvale express use continental or UK shot sizes?

 

[Blackstar Ninja]

Express are generally UK shot sizes with the only exception being the Power Gold 7.5(2.4), 8(2.3). Gamebore do the same with their Diamond shot range. I believe only Eley and Hull stick to the UK sizes across their range.

 

[Geordieboy]

Does anybody know if lyalvale express use continental or UK shot sizes?

Errrrr.....I've cut several up....and to be honest....they use what they have.  Those Super Comps 7.5s  had shot sizes of 6.5 - 8.5 in one cartridge........I carved another up and they were the same..... :wacko:

The Super comp 8's were a true 7.5 though.  Gamebore Black Gold 6.5s were a true 6 shot.....bit naughty that.......and White Gold 8's a true 7.5 shot.

Still........they all clout the target when you hit them!

 

[perazman]

When we had issues with the Power Blues we opened a few up to see if the powder differed. They were loaded with 7's. Labelled 7.5's. We're told by George Young that the shot he buys is the same price regardless of what size he orders it in so it's beyond me why uk manufacturers can't stick to our sizes.

Ps. Hull arent exempt from this either. High Pheasant Extremes are continental sizes. I believe Eley are Uk sized but Eley being Eley the shot weight is probably wrong!!

PM.

 

[westley]

I prefer to just buy 'em and shoot em'  as long as they are breaking targets and are reasonably clean, without knocking the manure out of me, what is inside them matters NOT to me  !