FAULTY MULLER CHOKE

[schmokinn]

OPTIMA HP U2 coating missing from inside approx a 1/4 of the way round the choke and goes from the bottom for about 10 mm i would say its arch shaped and it is misshapen (belled out), on the outside a large patch where the coating seems to have melted.

i discovered this when cleaning the gun and finding it extremely tight to remove,this may also explain why i couldn't seem to hit anything when the week before with a different choke i shot fine.

i returned the choke to nick at just choking who told me it was a problem with the coating and replaced it.

when returning it i was asked what revision it was (rev.0) this would make you think there was an upgrade/modification but no i received another revision zero.

i queried this making this point and was then told it was my fault the choke had been loose and this had caused the problem! and that there was no problem with the choke.

bit hard to believe for several reasons the main one being that i as a matter of habit check the tightness of the chokes regularly during my round and generally just before i shoot a stand and had not noticed it becoming loose.

in the process of text messages back and forth (he does not seem to want to speak on the phone for some reason i do not understand) he then tells me it  needs to be more than finger tight..the website states they only need to be hand tight and seen as the fingers on the end of them do the work i do not see how i could have failed to follow the instructions.

also i have seen it stated on this site that they do not shoot loose!

i feel i am in a quandary caused by contradiction.

i really struggle to have any confidence with the item as i was told it was one thing and then another

do i take a chance with the replacement choke in my near new Beretta risking the chance of damage to the barrel because i am told there was no problem with the choke,as there obviously was?

or do i just chuck it away or sell it and go back to a teague?

has anyone else had any problems with Muller chokes as in is this a one off?

looking forward to hearing your thoughts and/or experiences.

 

[Darkside]

Why go to Teuge? The standard HP chokes that come with the gun are exellent, I wouldn't bother with aftermarket unless they are a lot cheaper and you are buying loads!?!?

 

[schmokinn]

Why go to Teuge? The standard HP chokes that come with the gun are exellent, I wouldn't bother with aftermarket unless they are a lot cheaper and you are buying loads!?!?

i already have a teague!

 

[jwpzx9r]

Well you have a new choke slap it in and make sure it is kept tight shoot the gun and see what happens? Maybe the choke was not properly tightened ? I have them and have had no bother with mine but it could be rounds fired dependent and I have only fired about 2k through mine on the first barrel. JJ is right if you want the performance the manufacturer designed the gun to, use the supplied chokes then you cannot be in the wrong if they go west.

 

[schmokinn]

Well you have a new choke slap it in and make sure it is kept tight shoot the gun and see what happens? Maybe the choke was not properly tightened ? I have them and have had no bother with mine but it could be rounds fired dependent and I have only fired about 2k through mine on the first barrel. JJ is right if you want the performance the manufacturer designed the gun to, use the supplied chokes then you cannot be in the wrong if they go west.

"Well you have a new choke slap it in and make sure it is kept tight shoot the gun and see what happens?..."

the whole point being i do not want to see that what happens is damage to my barrel!

i do not think i got 200 through it and it was tightened as per instruction and checked regularly.

as for the comment on performance you obviously believe they are better as you use them so i do not see the point in that statement as we all obviously seek to improve on anything we can?

i have had a few different aftermarket chokes over the years but never a problem with any of them till now.

 

[Nicky T]

Hi Mark,

Permit me to add some facts to your original post as I don't believe it to be factually correct:

- The choke that you returned was in fact a Revision D.

- The replacement choke you received was also a Revision D.

- The choke that you returned had a proportion of the internal coating missing, from the end that resides inside the barrels. My comment to you, and I quote was "from the nature of the damage to your original choke, it looks as though the choke was not fully screwed in , causing the internal surface to become damaged. This is clearly not a manufacturing defect, but as neither you or I can prove that this was the case I am willing to extend goodwill and replace the choke at my expense. The chokes need to be tightened properly into the barrels not finger tight".

Whether this comes across as "it's your fault" only you can decide. To me it does not read that way.

You do not need to be in a quandary about anything. Safety dictates that any choke should always be tight in any barrel. I have always maintained that all chokes, Mullers included, should be tightened accordingly and as such I, and many others, use friction fit keys to tighten and remove their chokes when required.

If you no longer wish to use the choke then please feel free to return it to me for a full refund.

Kindest regards,

Nick.

 

[V8 90]

Can't get fairer than that !!!

 

[EdSolomons]

Hi Mark,

Permit me to add some facts to your original post as I don't believe it to be factually correct:

- The choke that you returned was in fact a Revision D.

- The replacement choke you received was also a Revision D.

- The choke that you returned had a proportion of the internal coating missing, from the end that resides inside the barrels. My comment to you, and I quote was "from the nature of the damage to your original choke, it looks as though the choke was not fully screwed in , causing the internal surface to become damaged. This is clearly not a manufacturing defect, but as neither you or I can prove that this was the case I am willing to extend goodwill and replace the choke at my expense. The chokes need to be tightened properly into the barrels not finger tight".

Whether this comes across as "it's your fault" only you can decide. To me it does not read that way.

You do not need to be in a quandary about anything. Safety dictates that any choke should always be tight in any barrel. I have always maintained that all chokes, Mullers included, should be tightened accordingly and as such I, and many others, use friction fit keys to tighten and remove their chokes when required.

If you no longer wish to use the choke then please feel free to return it to me for a full refund.

Kindest regards,

Nick.

Thumbs up!

 

[Iggy]

You asked for opinions from other users and I can only say I've been very happy with my Mullers. I've been using an Optima HP U1 and U2 for the last 2 years and not had a problem.

I know this doesn't help, but I'm sure chokes are just like any other mass produced component - 99.9% of them will perform as specified and the 0.01% may fail from time to time. I've also known Nick at Justchoking a couple of years now and he's a very decent chap so I'm sure he'll be able to help sort things out.

Hope you get things sorted.

Iggy.

 

[Ozzy]

I've used Muller chokes in my Beretta DT11 for well over a year and a half now ! And not had a problem . Looking at the damage to the choke it looks like pressure is getting behind them , I would check your barrels before blaming the chokes !! ......

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

Coming from an engineering perspective to me it looks like gases have been leaking around the skirt of the choke 

There may have been some debris prior to fitment although this could be pure speculation  this is not uncommon and always needs to be checked especially after cleaning as small amounts of cloth or tissue can remain around the choke area

Check and double check very small dab of lubricant applied to the thread and tighten sufficiently and Bobs your uncle!!

P.s The service I have received from Nicky T has always been first class so am sure he will do his utmost to resolve your problem. :nyam:

 

[Nick Selby]

If you no longer wish to use the choke then please feel free to return it to me for a full refund.

You can't get better customer service than that.

 

[Mike Bartlett]

I have done a lot of testing of the Muller choke that Nicky T supplied me and i will be posting the full results shortly in my original post "Are Muller Chokes as good as they claim to be" so keep an eye out for it as it will be interesting reading for all those people interested in Chokes.

 

[schmokinn]

Hi Mark,

Permit me to add some facts to your original post as I don't believe it to be factually correct:

- The choke that you returned was in fact a Revision D.

- The replacement choke you received was also a Revision D.

- The choke that you returned had a proportion of the internal coating missing, from the end that resides inside the barrels. My comment to you, and I quote was "from the nature of the damage to your original choke, it looks as though the choke was not fully screwed in , causing the internal surface to become damaged. This is clearly not a manufacturing defect, but as neither you or I can prove that this was the case I am willing to extend goodwill and replace the choke at my expense. The chokes need to be tightened properly into the barrels not finger tight".

Whether this comes across as "it's your fault" only you can decide. To me it does not read that way.

You do not need to be in a quandary about anything. Safety dictates that any choke should always be tight in any barrel. I have always maintained that all chokes, Mullers included, should be tightened accordingly and as such I, and many others, use friction fit keys to tighten and remove their chokes when required.

If you no longer wish to use the choke then please feel free to return it to me for a full refund.

Kindest regards,

Nick.

fair enough if i mistook the revision d for a Zero...you never mentioned this in your messages.

but if you were being honest about it you would have admitted the content of the original messages which you have not so you are not being FACTUALLY CORRECT

everything i stated is wholly true and and unadulterated in any way.

so you have replied to my question on the correct method for the tightening of the choke and you contradict the advice given on your and the Muller site 

i see you now suggest i should use a friction fit choke key not mentioned by the manufacturer...is this likely to damage the coating and if so will it be covered by the warranty?

masses of information can be passed in a few seconds of a simple phone call and would have made things a whole lot easier.

so all i have really learn't from this that some of the statements you and the original manufacturer have made are factually incorrect according to what you say now and that you seem to have forgotten "the issue with the choke is the coating not the geometry"...just being FACTUALLY CORRECT

i do not understand why you have suggested i am not telling the whole story when in fact it is you that have missed a large chunk of it.

    regards Mark

 

[Harry1]

Question for nick I purchased 2muller U2 prior to going to Dubai for my guerini they did not hit as many clays as I would have liked are they faulty?

Paul McMillan

 

[Jan Powell]

I think this one has gone far enough. Schmokinn has expressed his opinion and Nicky T has offered both a reply and a solution. The pair of you can sort it out from there via PMs if you wish.

I don't want this to degenerate into a customer service slanging match so i'll lock the thread.

 

[Nicky T]

Hi Mark,

I don't know why this thread was closed earlier - I'm pleased that it reopened as I wanted to post a reply.

My earlier message to you also suggested that you should use a friction fit key on your chokes; maybe you missed that?

Use of a friction fit key will not cause any damage to the coating at all. This is for two reasons: the force exerted is spread evenly throughout the contact surface area and secondly the hardness of the coating.

Clearly you have an issue that the above advice does not match that on the website(s). I am very willing to revise my website to reflect this stance and have already requested that Jim Muller does the same on his. Aside from this plans are already afoot to include a "how to" guide with the chokes and release a dedicated Muller choke key, a sample of which I saw at the Seminole Cup this year.

My earlier offer to accept your choke back and give you a refund still stands.

Kindest regards,

Nick

 

[schmokinn]

thanks to the people who have replied while i was considering my last post and your sentiments may be true.

unfortunately as i stated a large part of the original conversation was not admitted to so i still feel unsure about nick and am disappointed he chose not to mention it.

i feel it makes me out to not be telling the truth and that is something that really annoys me.

as for the choke coming loose i have stated that i checked between every stand and did not find it loose and it was not loose when i came to clean it.

also i have never had and do not know anyone who has had such a problem.

i also struggle to understand how gas getting behind something would cause it to spread in that direction but then i am not a fully qualified engineer.

so it seems no one so far has had a problem but me..i guess bad luck had to strike sometime.

RESPONSE FROM JIM MULLER; MULLER CHOKES

"Hello Mark, Jimmy Muller here. I can see why you are concerned, but let me explain the culprit. When people use factory chokes or many "other" after-market chokes, the gas skirt edge does not seal at the bore due to poor geometry or because their extended head portion hits on the muzzle before it seats on the bore, causing carbon blow by. This "blow by" builds up in the fillet radius area where the bore meets the choke area and because the factory chokes are so sloppy, it allows for a lot of build-up. Then you take a Muller Choke that is very close fitting to the barrel and you tighten it down onto/into this hardened carbon build-up and it can cause that very thin Optima HP or optima styl choke wall to "squeeze down" and cause a slight protrusion into the bore causing it to peel the edge of the choke in a worst case scenario. Nick is correct as well...it could be caused by a loosened choke, especially if it is "hitting" up against this carbon buildup from shooting a lesser choke. My opinion is to remove the choke tube, get some cleaner into your choke end of barrel and scrape the plastic and carbon out with a straight blade screwdriver. When its clean, then re install a new Muller and your good to go.
By the way......A Muller will never damage or bulge a barrel thenks to its material. Unlike a stainless or titanium choke that could cause severe damage."

 

 

[Chris Bubb]

I have 8 Muller chokes, some bought new, some s/h, one of the s/h ones I bought split after some use. I spoke to Nicky T and he replaced it  FOC. He didn't have to do anything but he believes in this product. The U2s I have,have had about 25,000 through them and still look as good as new. So I wouldn't worry about using them.