Forend fingering & handling positions

[El Spavo]

Just a curiousity this one, but how do people (you lot, not in general as a single answer ) mount their fingers around the forend and moreso has anyone had  greater success after changing the grip slightly? Asking cos I hold mine in a way I would consider an absolute beginner would, thumb on one side, all the other sausages round the other, but I've seen/read allsorts of varieties, so wondering if any changes have proved helpful and why? Tried a few different holds after watching other shooters, but holding the finger directly in line of sight so you're effectively pointing at the clay seems the most interesting and logical to me, just tried similar once and it was excruciating after a couple of stands (schnabel didn't help with the little lip). If it's just how people are naturally picking it up, then that's how it is and no different to what I'm doing, but I'm guessing that some people actually work/ed on this for a better shot, and I'd like to know why and how well it came off.

Had a good search on here for this, but nothing came up so over to you guys.

 

[Gavin]

I dont like schnabel forends  for that reason.  I hold the forend like most do  index finger running parallel with the fore end.  It's just comfortable    keeps  the wrist straight  and takes most of the cant out of my barrels. I dont think it's  important  just whatever feels right to you 

 

[Lloyd]

@El Spavo 

Yes, changed my grip the last two shoots both the fore end and the pistol grip. 
Changed the latter after watching a YouTube clip and the former on recommendation from a coach at Honesberie last Tuesday.

I changed my grip around the pistol grip as I was getting a dull ache in my wrist. I have basically moved my hand more to the side of the stock.

A side effect of this, I accidentally placed my thumb in line with the rib. I shot well and then on the next pair consciously moved my thumb out of the way. Whilst I still shot well, I got an odd comfort from having my thumb where logically it really ought not to be, so I placed my thumb where it naturally felt right, but slightly masking the rib. Maybe I dropped some clays because of that, but to be honest I actually feel it helped me focus better and hit more.

On the fore end, I, as you have said, moved my “sausages” more underneath and pointing my index finger along the side, inline with the barrels.

For me, I don’t get so much as a sense of pointing my finger at the clay but more a sense of I look where I’m pointing and it has made a difference for sure to my focus and scores.

I started out as you say, just picking the gun up “naturally”. I’ve found it only takes me a few sessions for me to form a habit and become natural feeling.

I’ve made a lot of changes actually, switching from right shoulder to left giving me a huge improvement. Taking a more upright and square on stance (EJC/Digweed style) and recently going back to an oblique, forward bias. To be honest, my stance hasn’t felt like it makes a lot of difference, I’m just experimenting on the various advice.
A former FITASC champion told me he doesn’t care where his or anyone’s toes point, it’s the where the barrels point that matter. Hard to argue with that logic.

On the other hand, another No:1 ranked FITASC shooter said stance really matters.

More and more I’m finding these disparities. I have resigned myself to accepting that the only way for my to find out what works is to try everything out and see what works for me and what doesn’t and only when I’ve finally settled on a full gamut of personal idiosyncrasies will I truly be in a position to begin developing true consistency. It’s getting there, but I’m sure there’s stil a lot I need to explore yet.

As an aside, I watched a YouTube clip of the 2020 Gator Cup; Anthony Matarese Jr rocking to and fro whilst rotating the cartridge in the top barrel before each pair!

I guess we have to do whatever we need to do that works for us and individuals sort our own wheat from our own chaff. 

 

[Bebo]

Easier to show you rather than explain. I think my grip is fairly standard.  I've got a habit of flexing my fingers while waiting for the target, don't realise I'm doing it most of the time, until someone points it out and then I get self-conscious about it and try not to.


Even worse in this one.

 

[Will Hewland]

I googled fingering and positions in a bid to assist. It didn’t go well. 

 

[ColinD]

I used to hold like you when I had a Berreta with a schnabel forend which was quite slim, my large hands didn't feel comfortable at all with the froend and grip

Changed to a Gureini with a beaver forend which is much better and my hand can now hold with the first finger pointing forward.The beaver forend just seems to fit my hand so much better

 

[Doctor Lecter]

my 525 laminate is having the shnabel  removed , to a more London style shape !  in reply to Lloyds post , I watch many shooting vids on youtube   frenchnick  vids are top draw  but they do highlight   some shooters pre shot routine  ,  many of them  really annoy me   its time consuming  like watching paint dry  , its all in the head ,  some bordering on O C D     but if you hit the clay    BINGO !!!

 

[Lloyd]

@Doctor Lecter Bordering on OCD? From my viewing, I‘d say the border has been well and truly crossed.

 Now, where did I put that tin of Dulux?

 

[El Spavo]

I googled fingering and positions in a bid to assist. It didn’t go well. 

Oh, you... silly sausage!

 

[ColinD]

I googled fingering and positions in a bid to assist. It didn’t go well. 

And me, if only I had tinternet 40yrs ago

 

[MartynB]

@El Spavo 

Yes, changed my grip the last two shoots both the fore end and the pistol grip. 
Changed the latter after watching a YouTube clip and the former on recommendation from a coach at Honesberie last Tuesday.

I changed my grip around the pistol grip as I was getting a dull ache in my wrist. I have basically moved my hand more to the side of the stock.

A side effect of this, I accidentally placed my thumb in line with the rib. I shot well and then on the next pair consciously moved my thumb out of the way. Whilst I still shot well, I got an odd comfort from having my thumb where logically it really ought not to be, so I placed my thumb where it naturally felt right, but slightly masking the rib. Maybe I dropped some clays because of that, but to be honest I actually feel it helped me focus better and hit more.

On the fore end, I, as you have said, moved my “sausages” more underneath and pointing my index finger along the side, inline with the barrels.

For me, I don’t get so much as a sense of pointing my finger at the clay but more a sense of I look where I’m pointing and it has made a difference for sure to my focus and scores.

I started out as you say, just picking the gun up “naturally”. I’ve found it only takes me a few sessions for me to form a habit and become natural feeling.

I’ve made a lot of changes actually, switching from right shoulder to left giving me a huge improvement. Taking a more upright and square on stance (EJC/Digweed style) and recently going back to an oblique, forward bias. To be honest, my stance hasn’t felt like it makes a lot of difference, I’m just experimenting on the various advice.
A former FITASC champion told me he doesn’t care where his or anyone’s toes point, it’s the where the barrels point that matter. Hard to argue with that logic.

On the other hand, another No:1 ranked FITASC shooter said stance really matters.

More and more I’m finding these disparities. I have resigned myself to accepting that the only way for my to find out what works is to try everything out and see what works for me and what doesn’t and only when I’ve finally settled on a full gamut of personal idiosyncrasies will I truly be in a position to begin developing true consistency. It’s getting there, but I’m sure there’s stil a lot I need to explore yet.

As an aside, I watched a YouTube clip of the 2020 Gator Cup; Anthony Matarese Jr rocking to and fro whilst rotating the cartridge in the top barrel before each pair!

I guess we have to do whatever we need to do that works for us and individuals sort our own wheat from our own chaff. 

Stance can also be affected by your own physical shape . For a very large , bulky individual , square on may be the optimal position as they may not have as much rotation available around their core as a slighter built individual . 

Also remember the purpose of the fore hand is just to guide the barrels ,  the rear hand grips and holds the gun to the shoulder . Personally, I have always held the gun with a thumb and fore finger on one side with the finger pointing . Think about this , if  you wanted to point out a flying bird or airplane how do you do it, yep just the same as you’ve done with your gun .  
 

My personal preference for a pistol grip is one without a palm swell like my 38 trap and MK60 game . Some day if I go back to shooting my K80 I’ll have the grip slimmed . 

 

[El Spavo]

Bebo, yeah, that's how I hold it... without the forend rumba though. :victory:

 

[Luke_(NL)]

holding the finger directly in line of sight so you're effectively pointing at the clay seems the most interesting and logical to me

That's what I've been taught to do, but the forend of my gun (the neither schnabel nor beaver round style 692) wasn't very comfortable to hold that way, nor was there any tactile "indicator" of whether my hand was in the same place on each shot. I swapped it our for a beaver-tail forend and am now happily pointing out targets and have a better feel for where my hand is, in terms of consistency in holding the gun. Consistently hitting the targets is another matter entirely      

 

[Will Hewland]

That's what I've been taught to do, but the forend of my gun (the neither schnabel nor beaver round style 692) wasn't very comfortable to hold that way, nor was there any tactile "indicator" of whether my hand was in the same place on each shot. I swapped it our for a beaver-tail forend and am now happily pointing out targets and have a better feel for where my hand is, in terms of consistency in holding the gun. Consistently hitting the targets is another matter entirely      

I've googled correct fingering around a beaver and... Sorry I'll stop now..

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I've googled correct fingering around a beaver and... Sorry I'll stop now..

The so-called rules of the internet always apply. (34-36 specifically, by my guess)

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I googled fingering and positions in a bid to assist. It didn’t go well. 

I've googled correct fingering around a beaver and... Sorry I'll stop now..

Shirley there must have been some valuable info there?  Just not sharing are you?

On the gun stuff - I have big hands (extra large TSK grip) and schnabels  work fine for me.  I hold quite close to the action and my hand is mostly on the side of the forend.   The grip is still quite secure and controlling the gun with pigeon loads is not a problem.  My wife has much smaller hands and uses the same forends and grip with no problems either.  Fatter forends tend to force me to rotate the hand further around and that simply places the hand in a less ergonomically comfortable position that feels less secure to me.

JMO of course - - - besta luck

 

[Martinj]

Had a good search on here for this, but nothing came up so over to you guys.

I never gave it a thought until I bought a new gun about a year ago when I found that the Schnabel "lip" had a sharp edge which knocked the skin off my fore finger over a round of 100 clays. Looking at the gun I was surprised that I was holding the fore end so far forward. I tried consciously holding it nearer to the action but soon realised that I did NOT want to start thinking about where I was holding it. The solution was to round off the offending lip and let my hand grip wherever it wanted to (which is the correct way, like yours )

 

[Freddypip]

I understand that having your index finger pointing along the forend helps the brain & eyes maintain the same line. With an old forend I ended up sanding a small patch at the right point and always placing my index finger on it. This built up some muscle memory. The old forend was swapped out 5 years ago so I may forget to 'point' every now and again.

I know we have discussed eye dominance before but as a right handed person who shoots left handed with a left master eye, having my dominant right hand pointing along the gun barrel is a great help. I would normally point with my right hand whereas right hand/right eye shooters would not normally point with their left.

I suspect the flexing of fingers is a calming/trigger movement - we all have them - and if its doing no harm I would just let it happen.