Ground throughput

[Nimbusgb]

What's the most people you can get through a ground in a day? I'm trying to test some ideas.​

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A 100 bird ESP competition in the UK appears to run out of time at around 400 shooters. That's 40000 clays thrown from say 12 stands over about 6 hours. 'Free for all' stand order, ie everyone starts when and where they want. After that some of the comps I have shot have just bogged down and it gets frustrating.At that level it takes 2 hours, occasionally more to shoot the targets.​

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The new 'inline' formats for compact etc looks like it might shuffle them through quickly but my calculations say throwing a clay on a compact layout every say 3 seconds means 7200 clays in 6 hours. That still means only 288 shooters get through a layout in the day. 25 birds on a layout , shooters can be on 4 layouts simultaneously so about 300 per day for a compact type shoot in a day. 432 shooters in the day if you are really slick and throw a clay every 2 seconds once again we are back to 400 in a day.​

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FITASC looks to be far slower with 100 birds off 4 layouts being limited to around 100 shooters in the day.​

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The Trap shooters are far more regimented, you cant throw clays at them quickly but how many do they have in a large comp over a day? ( Not my bag so I don't know )​

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Can more be done without extending the day?​

Are my figures realistic?​

 

[leighH]

I would say 400 through at English sporting (free for all) in 6 hours is not achievable.

I remember we put 375 through at the British Open at Sandringham in a day  (9.00 - 17.30) over 14 stands and that was enough. Also depends on course and down time with filling towers etc.

With Compak using line system depends on the layout as 1 single & 2 simo pairs will shoot alot quicker than 3 singles & 1 report, so starting shooters every 3 minutes once underway can put 20 shooters through an hour, so around 160 a layout per day.  Don't forget shooters are allowed 10 secs after last shot to call for target so releasing a clay every 3 secs is unrealistic ( and very difficulty to referee)

Standard old system FITASC sporting 12 squads through a day @ 45 minutes over 4 layouts = 72 shooters.

Regards

Leigh

 

[Nimbusgb]

Thanks Leigh

Looks like I was being very optimistic!

 

[schmokinn]

The other thing is that it is never a constant,ground near me varies from around a 100 to nearly 2 and so many factors can affect it.

 

[Nimbusgb]

The other thing is that it is never a constant,ground near me varies from around a 100 to nearly 2 and so many factors can affect it.

Yup. I am just looking for maximums.

 

[Will Hewland]

400 shooters might be possible on a long summers day, running for 8 or 9 hours. Then you almost need relief scorers. The usual feel at say Weston Wood is that its unpleasant for all concerned when there are more than 250 entries. But factor at least 120 clays per shooter, with show pairs and no birds. 

 

[Westward]

What's the most people you can get through a ground in a day? I'm trying to test some ideas.​

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There are so many variables that it's impossible to come up with a useful answer. The most efficient system in my experience was when The Clay Shooting Co ran the 'Classic'. This was squadded but with a full complement of refs. Squads started simultaneously, each on a different stand and rotated in stand number order. Obviously timing was critical, especially as there were 2 courses,  but it worked pretty smoothly and IIRC the biggest days had 300 shooters through. The downside, as Allison pointed out, is that it takes a lot of work to set up the system.

For the ordinary weekend shoots many factors affect throughput such as the number of stands, how far apart they are and how they're organised. Ever been to a shoot where a big bunch up occurs at a stand with 5 slow pairs on report, just at the spot where everyone converges? Think it's crap for the shooters having to hang around for 45 minutes? Imagine what it's like for the ref who's been there for hours with no let up except when the traps are being filled.

Most of the places where I've worked or shot,  the customers, ground staff and refs start to feel the pressure at around 175 entries and as Will says, at many grounds, 250 is too many for comfort.

 

[Jan Powell]

The Trap shooters are far more regimented, you cant throw clays at them quickly but how many do they have in a large comp over a day?​

You’re right, trap shooters won’t (or shouldn’t be) rushed. Realistically, 450 is about as many as can be handled in one event and that requires at least 12 layouts to get everyone through in a day. Remember too that time has to be set aside for shoot-off’s, some of which can run to many rounds.

Competitions overseas are much larger. The Grand American has over 4000 competitors, the NSSA World Championship close to 1000 but these are run over a couple of weeks. It can be done if you’ve plenty of space, time and money.

 

[Will Hewland]

Are there 450 trap shooters in the UK then? Wow. Who knew. ?

 

[westley]

Are there 450 trap shooters in the UK then? Wow. Who knew. ?

Buy an auto for trap shooting and you will CERTAINLY find out  !   

 

[Jan Powell]

Buy an auto for trap shooting and you will CERTAINLY find out  !   

It's funny you say that. A chap pitched up to shoot a registered ABT a few weeks ago at a ground not far from me. Three times the ground tried to put him on a squad but each refused to shoot with him. He ended up having to wait until the end of the day to shoot on his own. Even I felt sorry for him!

 

[balltrap]

It's funny you say that. A chap pitched up to shoot a registered ABT a few weeks ago at a ground not far from me. Three squads refused to shoot with him. He ended up having to wait until the end of the day to shoot on his own. Even I felt sorry for him!

Not many shoot a auto at trap its not the done thing !

Are there 450 trap shooters in the UK then? Wow. Who knew. ?

There are a lot more than that, not all of them shoot the big comps 

 

[westley]

It's funny you say that. A chap pitched up to shoot a registered ABT a few weeks ago at a ground not far from me. Three times the ground tried to put him on a squad but each refused to shoot with him. He ended up having to wait until the end of the day to shoot on his own. Even I felt sorry for him!

It comes from personal experience Jan. The best trap gun that I have ever owned and shot some of my best scores with (including winning quite a few comps too), just happened to be a Remmie 1100 Tournament Trap.  I even had the gun modified to eject the empties downwards, made no difference to misguided prejudice though.