Gun Cabinet Quality

[Pjc Locks Safes Locksmiths]

Hi my name is john i joined today its good to meet you all on here.

I thought i would start a topic on the difference between a gun cabinet and a gun safe

I have been asked a few times over the past few weeks.

I would always advise my customers to purchase Gun Safe, although it costs a bit more the added advantages of 4 way locking and a better quality lock

The steel is alot thicker, i have noticed the quality of Gun cabinets is very poor in alot of cases as different local police forces pass different standards

What do you all think? 

 

[Finners]

Hello and welcome

Sorry to raise this (and I suspect I might wish I hadn't) But I think I'm a little concerned about your use of the words " ....as different local police forces pass different standards.."

My understanding is that the safekeeping of a Shotgun (Not section 1 Firearm) is the responsibility of the Certificate holder. ie the Act says (something like) It is the responsbility of the Certificate holder to prevent unauthorised access to the Shotgun

Therefore, as the reponsibility for the safe keeping of the weapon rests with the Certificate holder, the Police are not required required to "Pass" anything.

Of course, they are free to advise on security but the certificate holder is equally free to act on or ignore that advice.

Obviously, if a gun is subsequently stolen and advice was given and not acted on, then the certificate holder (rightly) risks serious censure. On the other hand if the advice is fully complied with, then the level of action against the certificate holder should reflect this.

I would be most grateful to learn if I my interpretation is wrong.

 

[Guerini Guy]

Hi John and welcome.

Apart from the "hello" bit, it might make sense to place the main drift of your post in the General Discussion area of the forum. Likely to get more attention there ?

 

[evoracer]

Hi my name is john i joined today its good to meet you all on here.

I thought i would start a topic on the difference between a gun cabinet and a gun safe

I have been asked a few times over the past few weeks.

I would always advise my customers to purchase Gun Safe, although it costs a bit more the added advantages of 4 way locking and a better quality lock

The steel is alot thicker, i have noticed the quality of Gun cabinets is very poor in alot of cases as different local police forces pass different standards

What do you all think? 

I don't agree to 2 points 

1 is  i have noticed the quality of Gun cabinets is very poor

2 is  in alot of cases as different local police forces pass different standards

 
and the point is pretty much the same the gun cabinet safe has to comply with the british standard  7558/92 this isn't an option it's mandatory so the standard is set!

 

[Finners]

I don't agree to 2 points 

1 is  i have noticed the quality of Gun cabinets is very poor

2 is  in alot of cases as different local police forces pass different standards

 
and the point is pretty much the same the gun cabinet safe has to comply with the british standard  7558/92 this isn't an option it's mandatory so the standard is set!

Where does it say in the Act that it's mandatory to have a cabinet?

It's true that the Home Office has published guidance which supports the idea that shotguns should be stored in a cabinet that meets the BS standard. But "guidance" is not mandatory. 

Please don't misunderstand me, my gun is in a cabinet that complies with the BS code and the Home Office advice. Also, my home is in an area classed as low risk, it has good primary security etc. So I'm not trying to suggest we should ignore the advice being given by the Home Office/Police.

My point is one of law - ie the onus to comply with the provisions of the Act is on YOU the certificate holder and not the Police. 

 

[DAVE_B]

Hi John, Welcome to ShootClay   :hi:  Enjoy your visits   :thumbsu:

This discussion is going to go on and on and on!

 

[Ray]

Welcome to the Forum

 

[timps]

BS7558 /92 does not specify how to build the cabinet bar a few notes in section 4 which states secure locks or close shackle padlocks of not less than 1 000 differs must be used. BS7558 just describes the method of a physical attack test carried out by an independent test laboratory.

The method of testing for BS 7558 /92 is can it withstand a 5 minute attack from common hand-tools.

The tools listed are Club hammer 1.8 kg, Flat cold chisel overall length 200 mm and blade width 25 mm,  Jemmy.

You have 5 minutes to inspect then a further 5 minutes to attack, if you can removed it from its mount (if the mount fails rather than the cabinet then this does not count) or gain entry within 5 mins it fails. A second test is then performed by a 2nd person on a second cabinet for a further 5 min, at any vulnerable point(s) identified in the first test with no prompting during the test.

So for BS 7558 you can build your cabinet to whatever spec you want as long as you take into account the notes listed in section 4 if it then passes the attack test it is a cabinet to BS 7558 no matter how it is made.

Therefore  you could get a cabinet which only just passed the test but could be broken into with the hand tools within a time just outside the 5 mins that conforms to BS 7558/92. Then you could get a safe that would resist the hand tools and needed power tools and a considerable amount of time to break in that also would conform to BS 7558/2 so while all would conform some would greatly exceed.

In terms of the law there is no mandatory requirement just that the guns “must be stored securely” but as of yet  securely has not been defined in law so it is open to interpretation. However arguing with the firearms office doesn’t help with your renewal process time regardless of the actual wording of the law.

For a £100 single gun I would go with a gun clamp, a couple of clay guns worth a couple thousand a nice Brattonsound,   a matched set of Purdeys  I would go for a high end gun safe.

 

[Chris Hill]

Seems a good place to mention something that my dad taught me about the fitment of the cabinet.

If possible, try and fit it right in a corner of the room, so that the opening side of the door is against the second wall.

It does mean that you will be stood in your own light when you open it, but it also means that anyone with a crowbar or whatever wont be able to get as much leverage on the door as they will be blocked by the wall.

I can also recommend using the two-part wall-fixing resin in the holes with the wall bolts. (Especially if you live in an old house like us - being built out of pebble and lime mortar makes fixing anything to the wall interesting!)

You won't get it off the wall without an angle grinder then.

Of course moving house may mean you need to buy a new cabinet!

 

[jwpzx9r]

I had a mate who lived in a "modern" timber frame house not a solid wall in the place so we fixed a marine ply board to a wall inside a cupboard and then fixed the gun box to that ... plod passed it straight off.  I agree that some forces are different to other L&B wanted to have a quite precise fitting for my gun box. Had to be in a room or cupboard not visible from the outside of the house and fixed to a solid wall.. I never argued I just fitted it but it was for section 1 as well as shotgun so may be why?

 

[RobertBeard]

 Quote  "I agree that some forces are different to other L&B wanted to have a quite precise fitting for my gun box. Had to be in a room or cupboard not visible from the outside of the house and fixed to a solid wall." End Quote

I thought that that was standard guidance John