Gun safety at charity shoots

[schmokinn]

Just got back from Rules shoot in Somerset which was almost irrevocably ruined by some stroppy female teen with a huge chip on her shoulder.

We were sitting next to a stand waiting to shoot when approaching the cage she swings a closed gun straight across me an my mate,give her the benefit then she lifts the gun and proceeds to shoot at the first pair,i am in shock as i realise the gun was loaded when pointed at us.

She then under the instruction of her also teen proceeds to keep lifting the gun behind the bar to load and lift it back over to shoot,i try to catch the scorers attention to no avail and we move on.

We are waiting for the next stand`and look to our rear to see her with her group of teens/early 20's,she is  standing there with her gun open and cartridges loaded.

My mate who is a very large but polite chap goes over and places his fingers over the cartridges and proceeds to try and explain gun safety and that if she were to make a mistake/have an accident she would regret it for the rest of her life. At this point after removing the cartridges she throws the closed gun on the floor and storms off,shortly after this i see she is at another stand close by shouting the odds at us.

Shortly afterwards i see a group of three blokes 2 in shoot shirts proceed past us to her whereby she points out my mate and they come over,we establish what had happened and that she has told them a pack of lies and accused him of bullying her,we establish what happened and that it was all about safety and they go off.

My mate is duly pissed off that this little troublemaker has caused a problem for him by being unsafe and then lying about the consequences and is be fairly vocal to us in the car park about it when she walks past once again still gobbing off with one of the blokes and another woman.

He starts to take her side so i raise my palm and walk over explaining the situation at which point he apologises as he did not get the true story and we shake hands,understandable as he was simply trying to protect what he believed was an innocent party.

Points here are she could have quite easily killed someone,could have gracefully taken advice on safety,could have not gobbed off and tried to cause more trouble,could have not lied to the shoot organisers and should just grow up!

 

[ips]

bloody ell, frightening stuff. Plus if the two gallant young men were getting confrontational they should be banned as gun ownership without the correct temperament is not a good mix.

grounds safety officers should be on constant patrol for such things.

ps

today I had an auto pointed at my legs then a bloke ducking under a cage with a closed OU. I have rarely if ever witnessed such bad gun handling at trap comps it seems to be a esp thing.

 

[Paul120]

bloody ell, frightening stuff. Plus if the two gallant young men were getting confrontational they should be banned as gun ownership without the correct temperament is not a good mix.

grounds safety officers should be on constant patrol for such things.

ps

today I had an auto pointed at my legs then a bloke ducking under a cage with a closed OU. I have rarely if ever witnessed such bad gun handling at trap comps it seems to be a esp thing.

You for got to mention the guy on the  second stand we shot today who we said something to afterr he shot at a pair and exited the stand by ducking under the side bar with his gun still closed pointing directly at the scorers legs.  

I think it's about time they ran some safety articles in the shooting press. Not just Clayshooting and Pull but also the Shooting times and whatever the BASC members read.

 

[Rupert]

if you shoot long enough you will see something bad happen, on saturday i saw a lad with a section 1 shotgun in a stand put five shells in and i wasnt sure if i had seen shell no 1 go in, shot 5 clays and stepped out with the bolt closed, i had a word and he attempted to pull the bolt back,ended up asking one of the others who showed him how to do it,i guess the shooter wasnt the ticket holder for that gun, the group then let a newbie have a go with it. Im sure handing round a section 1 is a big no no.

 

[westley]

They routinely run such articles in ALL of the magazines, but most experienced shooters just by-pass them, because they already know it all. I have to agree about ESP probably being the worst of all the disciplines, but suspect that this is due to the large number of game shooters who now shoot sporting. I also think that as stated it is the charity type shoots and the smaller shooting grounds running non registered shoots, that are frequented by game shooters. One only has to watch game shooters in the field, take the gun from the slip closed, then look for somewhere to put the slip BEFORE opening the gun !  Having said all of that I think that we more experienced shooters are obliged to point out the transgressions to the offenders, regardless of whether we cause offence or not. But only this last week, I observed 3 'experienced' shooters enter the clubhouse during a shower of rain, close their guns, lay them on a table and proceed to rub them dry. Must be something to do with you can't dry an open gun !  When I was involved with running a ground we had a rule that no gun out of a slip was allowed in the clubhouse. 2 people were still injured inside the clubhouse by a 'SNAP CAP' that was 'LIVE'. More and more shooters are guilty of a lack of muzzle awareness and it is becoming a weekly occurrence at most grounds.

 

[Garwood]

Totally agree Westley,having observed many cavalier and arrogant `experienced` shooters at sporting shoots.

More accidents WILL happen in the future I`m sure.Far too many people think they know it all ,when in reality they are still total novices.

 

[schmokinn]

I have to say whoever was running the shoot had made there best effort to ensure safety they had a comprehensive page of rules and safety procedures pinned to each stand and most of the scorers seemed reasonably competent.

I also appreciate that in the process of trying to keep the shoot running they cannot watch everything all the time,unfortunately it was her frankly unbelievable attitude of a spoilt unruly brat that could have ended someones life and ruined hers......unfortunately she could not see that and doubt she ever will.

I count myself lucky to be able to tell the story 

 

[westley]

Just to resurrect this one and point out that it is NOT just Charity Shoots where things get a bit hairy. Today was the third outing in succession that I have had occasion to speak to someone about gun handling. 3 Guy's that were built like a certain brick variety of small house, passing a closed gun from gun rack to shooter (in stand). Did it first off with a silenced .410 single barrel and then followed it with a 12 bore O/U. He was not too impressed with being told about it, just nodded and grumbled something. Good job that I am deaf really ! These Guy's looked like they were on their tea break from the local building site  and did not have too much idea really, but the previous 2 incidents have involved experienced shooters. Looks like I am slowly being ticked off Christmas card lists, but what the heck. Oh and incidentally, none of these incidents have involved semi auto's.

 

[ips]

tis true. And I noted at least two other incidents of poor gun handling. He was a bit of a bruiser wasn't he ?

 

[westley]

tis true. And I noted at least two other incidents of poor gun handling. He was a bit of a bruiser wasn't he ?

You missed the best one ips, just after you had left,  the village idiot took a closed gun from the gunrack inside the clubhouse and proceeded to show the room,  how clean the barrels were. Another 'experienced shooter' and another O/U ! The mind boggles !

By the way, there are 4 pieces of chewing gum stuck under the second table down, on the left. Spotted them after I took cover !    

 

[Paul120]

tis true. And I noted at least two other incidents of poor gun handling. He was a bit of a bruiser wasn't he ?

Refer to the Text I sent you last night.  

 

[ChrisPackham]

Buy a single peg on a game shoot you have never been too before, that can be squitty bum time..

i have seen people drop guns in the cage, once one discharged the second barrel.. Also at Eriswell there were two guys carrying closed ou horizontally, both with team skeet vests on so should know better, they weren't happy when I raised my concerns with them and the shop couldn't care less when I told them, won't be going back there...

 

[balltrap]

I am amazed that there has not been a serious accident at  small sporting shoots, i have seen a lot of scary moments over the years

 

[Salopian]

I was told on Friday about a Wildfowler who travelled from Essex to Galloway with an Eightbore in his car loaded !

He may have thought it was safe as the gun had been loaded and stored in his house since February after his last outing.

 

[Salopian]

Further to my last post, a gentleman has been injured in an accident, he is insured with NFU, NGO and CPSA.

All have refused to pay out citing the fact that he has multiple insurances which invalidates their cover????

I am a member of NGO,CPSA, CA, BASC,GWCT, all of which give insurance as part of membership, so am I insured or not ?

Insurance brokers , please clarify the situation.

 

[ChrisPackham]

Further to my last post, a gentleman has been injured in an accident, he is insured with NFU, NGO and CPSA.

All have refused to pay out citing the fact that he has multiple insurances which invalidates their cover????

I am a member of NGO,CPSA, CA, BASC,GWCT, all of which give insurance as part of membership, so am I insured or not ?

Insurance brokers , please clarify the situation.

That's a pretty tough stance, most policies have conditions where they stipulate that no cover is in place if you have another policy which covers the incident, although this came about predominantly when people lost items on holiday and should claim under travel insurance rather than home insurance.

Technically it is probably in the policy working and would avoid someone claiming the full amount from all three policies, I would suggest that the best way forward would be to suggest that they all pay their proportionate share but that could be tricky to arrange and may involve three excesses.

Best advice would to b to ask all three to respond in writing to his complaint and then contact the ombudsman

Events like this show the downside of not using a Broker st the outset, beware of direct Insurance providers.

 

[Salopian]

PP, thanks for your very sensible response, my thoughts entirely.

I contacted BASC to see what they thought, of course they are perfect and in the event of me claiming off them , my claim would go through unhindered.

I also believe in the tooth fairy !

But it is rather worrying , because if you join NGO, BASC, CPSA, and many others you automatically get their insurance. You cannot opt out of their insurance cover.

Fortunately I have got a very good Insurance Broker who has made private provision and I have adequate cover in writing.

 

[ChrisPackham]

No problem, you make a good point about not being able to opt out of the insurance coverage if you are a member of more than one organisation, the reason being is that the perceived value the policy has is much, much more than what the organisation pays for it and as such they are making a lot of money on the back of it, I wont go into any details as I don't want to upset anyone or undermine the good work that the organisations do, even if most people join to get the recognised liability cover.

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

I was a member of the Countryside Alliance and when I tried to join the CPSA I was told the insurance was mandatory. It was for this exact reason I cancelled my membership with CA as I am well aware that insurance companies will pull this card to get out of a claim. 

I expressed my displeasure to CPSA at the time but I went along with it as I didn't have any choice. I support the CA through other routes now, rather than membership.