Doctor Lecter
Well-known member
ok fellow shooters don't want a war but in your opinions which grounds shoot easy / hard /consistently at esp , speed , distance, angles , etc , thanks in advance .
hard easy
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Jonny English
Well-known member
We only shoot a couple of small shoots along with Grimsthorpe and Orston. Grimsthorpe is always a very well balanced round something for everyone and nothing too silly. Orston we find hard, I find at Orston you really have to work hard for a score, but you really do feel you've achieved something if you do well at orston.
PhilS
Well-known member
I agree with JE, Orston is known for being a hard shoot.
Phil
Phil
Deershooter
Well-known member
Orston is not hard the others are soft take a look at the scores 99 % of the time the classes are won with the true class scores
AA 93- 96
A 86- 89
B. 78- 82
C. 69- 76
This happens week in week out
I have seen one club where on one shoot where every place winner in every class was between 89 -96 that's from AAA to C
AA 93- 96
A 86- 89
B. 78- 82
C. 69- 76
This happens week in week out
I have seen one club where on one shoot where every place winner in every class was between 89 -96 that's from AAA to C
Jonny English
Well-known member
I don't know how Doveridge is these days, but I do know that years ago my dad and his mate were in A class and went to shoot the english or british at Doveridge and it was so hard they both only shot mid 30's. After that shoot they both cancelled their cpsa membership, don't know how doveridge is these days though.
Only been to Doveridge once, English Open 2013 (?) and it was on the stiffer side the day we shot it with high winds and rain. It wasn't unlike a lot of Scottish shoots...both weather and targets. Don't take this the wrong way, but I can see why there would be a few A class guys down south who would struggle to get near their A class 'average' shooting stiffer targets than they are used to, especially in poor weather!!!
leighH
Well-known member
I think Johny may have beven referring to a championship set by Mick Howells in the late 90s. There was a real outcry at the time. I thought it was a stiff shoot but fair. Only stand we thought was unfair was a pair of teal held by the wind at 60 odd yards, but came in significantly when the wind dropped.
Nostalgia over
Regards
Leigh
Nostalgia over
Regards
Leigh
To be fair you can't take the odd championship shoot where the setter deliberately tries to go OTT in order to earn the reputation of a great course designer :lazy:
as the yardstick. I've shot really hard and too easy courses on the same ground pretty much everywhere, it's prolly fairer to rephrase the question as to whom sets the hardest/easiest targets, on average.
I like Dyson's and I like Lovatt's. People used to rave about Peckham but I always felt he beat you by distance.
James, don't take this the wrong way but the only minor flaw in your logic is how these Scottish shoots fail to produce killing machines that would turn up and slaughter the soft Southerners in their own backyard. Don't happen do it ? :smoke:
paul b
Well-known member
Don't realy know why you need to know unless your a very good shot and the soft shoots bore you,do your best and see where your at with your peers.Every comp easy or hard will learn you something.
Jonny English
Well-known member
That could easily be the one, I didn't go my self as i had stopped shooting at that time but it would be around 1998 to 2000 ish I would think.
David Paul Gag
Well-known member
Hi Guys,
What a good subject!
I shot the Doverage (think it was the English open)2 maybe 3 years ago - strong winds rain. For me it was a friggin nightmare!!
Every body knew before the shoot that the weather was going to be bad. People were paying good money so why didn't thay change it?
At the time I was a B grade - not been clay shooting long. However there were two double A shooters in front of me and I think thay managed 71/72. They were just standing about shaking their heads. I shot 58 - totally destroyed. I had shot the Essex a while before and did 79&80 lovely.
The question I would like to ask is:
Are all the top comps just set up for the top 10%?
Grumbling Dave
What a good subject!
I shot the Doverage (think it was the English open)2 maybe 3 years ago - strong winds rain. For me it was a friggin nightmare!!
Every body knew before the shoot that the weather was going to be bad. People were paying good money so why didn't thay change it?
At the time I was a B grade - not been clay shooting long. However there were two double A shooters in front of me and I think thay managed 71/72. They were just standing about shaking their heads. I shot 58 - totally destroyed. I had shot the Essex a while before and did 79&80 lovely.
The question I would like to ask is:
Are all the top comps just set up for the top 10%?
Grumbling Dave
I think they should be set up to FIND the top 10... The majors should stretch everyone a bit more than a standard shoot... I know that the very best course designers can set a few targets to catch even the best out.
Deershooter
Well-known member
Orston shooting ground has regularly been shot by the best in the country Mark Winser,Nick Hendrick ,Sean Bramley, John Lee,Ed Solomans Carl Exton ,Adam Cork, Steve Brightwell, Graham Stirzaker, Dave Carrie ,and many more have shot in the past . If you look at last weeks registered list it's like a who 's who of sporting shots but one name is still missing even though I have invited him ??????
Deershooter
Deershooter
I never said it did!?!? I also never said anything about 'soft southerners' either!!!James, don't take this the wrong way but the only minor flaw in your logic is how these Scottish shoots fail to produce killing machines that would turn up and slaughter the soft Southerners in their own backyard. Don't happen do it ? :smoke:
In general, the sporting shoots in England are quite different to the sporting shoots in Scotland. Less edge on clays, more 'fill in' stands, less extreme birds per shoot, not as badly/frequently affected by high winds and rain. The weather up here is windier and wetter, mostly the grounds are more exposed, what was set up as a good shoot in the middle of the week can quickly turn into a very hard slog on Sunday shooting in 40-50mph winds with 60mph gusts.
As for the 'killing machines", some of the Scottish boys do alright...the few who make it to or around AAA shooting up here really are top shots!!!
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ips
Well-known member
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I can't get my head around how the class system can possibly work in the current format when there is absolutely no uniformity regarding how easy or difficult shoots are from day to day. Imo even trap classification is a total nonsense but sporting is just ludicrous.
Just saying
Just saying
Whilst I think there are many improvements that could be made to the class system, the reason it works (a bit) at the moment is due to the volume being shot, the law of averages makes sure that things even themselves out.... The law of big numbers mean that people get classified in the right place.... The hard vs easy debate gets negated by people shooting a variety of courses and grounds, those that don't get found out when they go elsewhere.... Those that do put variety in and shoot more often get better across the board and their averages improve.
All the things that need to change in the classification system would only tinker at the edges and deliver tiny bugs important fixes and improvements.
All the things that need to change in the classification system would only tinker at the edges and deliver tiny bugs important fixes and improvements.
Clynt
Well-known member
think it may be easier to be ready for softer targets ? but being ready for longer edgy stuff where choke would help needs more ability to read speed and produce the correct placement ?
building the sight pictures for better targets does not come easy or over a short period , coached or not !!
every one enjoys big scores but I think it pays shooters to try stiffer grounds as well..... watch and learn there are some really top shooters here !!
get out of your comfort zone ,play with the chokes, know what your shell choke combination will do and which is best at what type of target , maybe if you are shooting 1/4 choke and 8's at everything , and all the sight pictures are similar you should try better / tougher grounds , and put it down as a experience to improvement to your all round game .
it's all about a balanced course for me for every 10m target there should be a 50m target ? too many C & B classes being won with 80-90 does make the class system unworkable for a few ?
this has been done over and over on here , but if you want a good all round game and you can accept a bad day ( and we all have em) get out and try a challenge elsewhere ?
building the sight pictures for better targets does not come easy or over a short period , coached or not !!
every one enjoys big scores but I think it pays shooters to try stiffer grounds as well..... watch and learn there are some really top shooters here !!
get out of your comfort zone ,play with the chokes, know what your shell choke combination will do and which is best at what type of target , maybe if you are shooting 1/4 choke and 8's at everything , and all the sight pictures are similar you should try better / tougher grounds , and put it down as a experience to improvement to your all round game .
it's all about a balanced course for me for every 10m target there should be a 50m target ? too many C & B classes being won with 80-90 does make the class system unworkable for a few ?
this has been done over and over on here , but if you want a good all round game and you can accept a bad day ( and we all have em) get out and try a challenge elsewhere ?
