Lead shot

[bisondan]

God help us if lead ever gets banned.

Shot some good driven duck yesterday where we have to use non-toxic, so I chose to use 36g 3s through 3/8 choke and it's just nowhere near as effective as lead; lots of 2nd barrel kills after definitely hitting with the 1st and a couple of times I actually put the gun down to despatch birds that were severely wounded, I can't stand there watching something suffer and carry on.

It wasn't ultra high stuff as well, max 45 yards, steel just hasn't got the energy and stopping power.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

People actually die in their thousands every year through the effects of smoking cigarettes and yet the practice goes on . I repeat lead from shotgun cartridges is an easy target and more importantly it gives governments the chance to control firearms. It is a total red herring and it is being used to manipulate gun use pure and simple. There are far greater health hazards that could be hit that are far more wide ranging thatn lead shot from cartridge shells ... but they are not  acceptable targets fullstop !

John, once again I feel compelled to remind you that simple truths are of no consequence to ANY political agenda!  "Science" is admissible only if it is convenient to do so.  And of course, the simple truth here is that the flap about lead, as you point out, is meaningless and the heart of the matter is really only about guns.

AFA saving the world goes, I'm having a difficult time finding some justification.  I suspect that the critical mass related to the biological imperative, out there on the horizon, will have far more impact see what I did there? than the general poisoning of the population by the wanton use of lead products by the shooting community.

Canadian?!?!?  WTF is up with that, eh?

Wonko your NUTS 

What about my nuts?

 

[FESkent]

I am with Lloyd with this I think we are on a  journey that will see the banning of lead in shotgun cartridges and ammunition.

some countries have already done so like Norway. But I think they still allow it in some rifle ammo .22rf?

steel shot is currently the only sensibly alternative which can be accommodated in 12ga and 20ga guns but it could be a very different story in 28ga and .410

 

[wisdom]

If /when it happens all my guns would probably be worthless.Only one is an English gun but none are steel proofed and out local clay ground doesn't allow steel.

 

[westley]

If /when it happens all my guns would probably be worthless.Only one is an English gun but none are steel proofed and out local clay ground doesn't allow steel.

They do NOT have to be 'steel proofed' to shoot steel unless in magnum type loads. Try and find a 65mm 12 bore steel load though.

 

[FESkent]

My error Norway did ban lead shot then reversed the ban, it is Denmark and the Netherlands that have totally banned its use.

the main driver at this time is the EU chemical agency,  pressure is also growing from the likes of wild justice and game dealers.

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/eu-moving-towards-outright-ban-lead-shot-107769

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13280-019-01170-5

It is difficult to argue against the science, lead is a known poison. How far reaching the ban becomes will probably depend on how high current compliance is, if high we may then be allowed to continue to use it for clay shooting but to a maximum pellet size of 8 shot.

 

[Centrepin]

 allowed to continue to use it for clay shooting but to a maximum pellet size of 8 shot.

Just as in Angling, where 8, 9 and 10 are now common place. When I was a kid, 8 was often referred to as dust shot. Now instead of using 4 or 6 we nip two or three 8s on instead. 

I did hear, but am maybe mistaken, that at the last Olympics the GB team were given some 9s to try and found they formed a better pattern due to not being forced together and mishaped by the chokes. If that's true then just like a high bird, it's way above my head. 

As I stated previously, lead over 1oz, can also be used for Angling but i think that has little relevance to shot.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

It is difficult to argue against the science, lead is a known poison.

AND it is a near certainty that the Earth will be impacted by yet another large asteroid ! ! ! Which do you think will come first - a lead-poisoned decimation of the world's population or the massive destruction of civilization as we know it by the asteroid ?!?!?!?

AND I would like to remind everyone that certifiably poisonous as it is, lead is not addictive.

I did hear, but am maybe mistaken, that at the last Olympics the GB team were given some 9s to try and found they formed a better pattern due to not being forced together and mishaped by the chokes. If that's true then just like a high bird, it's way above my head. 

be fascinating to see the patterning analysis that supports that

 

[westley]

None. My guns are new, steel proofed. 

id like to own an old English Purdey. Mind you if I did, I expect I’d have to hang it up and buy a new one. I expect if I could afford an old Purdey then I could probably afford a new one. Failing that I could probably afford to shoot bismuth. Or if I was wise I’d take some of my money and invest it in a munitions company that we’re embracing change.

of course not all old English guns are priceless Purdey’s. Some are fifty quid side by sides. If I owned one and it was rendered obsolete, I’m sure my much more expensive Blaser or browning would suffice. 

Then again, I might fall on hard times and have to buy a £500 Kofs. Then again is times go really hard id have to question if my spending money on shooting is something my family could afford for me to do at all.

anyway. I bleat on. 

No. I don’t own any old English guns

Yes, I thought so.

According to the news on BBC, 53 people die every WEEK on north west roads. What are we doing about that..er, stuff all.  Perhaps too much money involved in that one  ? 

 

[Centrepin]

According to the news on BBC, 53 people die every WEEK on north west roads. What are we doing about that..er, stuff all.  Perhaps too much money involved in that one  ? 

If it was 53 donkeys there would be a national outrage and mass demonstrations......... people tied to trees, fighting the police......but I digress

AND it is a near certainty that the Earth will be impacted by yet another large asteroid ! ! ! Which do you think will come first - a lead-poisoned decimation of the world's population or the massive destruction of civilization as we know it by the asteroid ?!?!?!?

AND I would like to remind everyone that certifiably poisonous as it is, lead is not addictive.

be fascinating to see the patterning analysis that supports that

It was what the coach was talking about a couple of sundays ago when I  said I couldn't tell the difference when firing, between 8s and 7.5s I had in my pocket. He spotted me popping a blue cartridge in one barrel and a red in tother and asked if I did it for  reason. He was coaching a beginner and I do believe he was trying to impress her. 

 

[Lloyd]

Yes, I thought so.

According to the news on BBC, 53 people die every WEEK on north west roads. What are we doing about that..er, stuff all.  Perhaps too much money involved in that one  ? 

Makes me glad I emigrated from the north west now!

 

[ChrisPackham]

I would think that the vast majority of sub sonic 22LR are shot at ranges where as in the club I go to it is captured and recycled. The amount going into the enviroment would I suspect be negligible alm things considered. 

I personally wouldn't like to see my weekly attempts to punch holes in paper for competition purposes which Ienjoy as much as any other form of shooting dismissed as a  necessary sacrifice to a perceived greater good. 

Paul, I doubt it ... why use subs for paper? 22 Hv available in non tox already, no sacrifice required.  The issue is you can’t make effective vermin subs in non tox due to energy is all, no reason for target to be affected