Limits

[wynno]

I reffed the compak at St Dials today, and there was a rabbit target that had a defined limit of a wooden post. It was made it clear to all the shooters that the said post was the limit and that any shot after it would be scored zero.

Unfortunately some shooters decided that this rule did not apply to them, and when I called zero took umbrage at my decision, so much so that one tackled me at the end of his squads round to say he shot it before the post, but it broke after the post.

If a limit is set accept it and shoot earlier.

What your opinion on this ??????

 

[shredder]

If the ref told me to shoot it before the post I would if not except the loss 

 

[EdSolomons]

Bird needs to break before the post, pretty simple in my book.

i was waiting although not in an ideal spot to watch and chatting with customers, I think you made the right call.

 

[wynno]

Bird needs to break before the post, pretty simple in my book.

i was waiting although not in an ideal spot to watch and chatting with customers, I think you made the right call.

Thanks Ed.

 

[Nimbusgb]

You get arseholes in every walk of life. Good on you for sticking to your call.

 

[Salopian]

'Referees decision is final '  that is a well known fact .

Unless overturned by a spineless Jury, who also often return the whinging gits appeal money.

If on a rabbit target there is a marker post , it is obviously there to limit the range , any breaks after the post are 'target lost' .

 

[Sian]

If there is a marker then there is a marker, if I cannot shoot it within the marker then bird lost and I need to practise more.

 

[ExSCA]

Rules is rules.... especially when applied by the greatest ref in the world. 

 

[Darkside]

Wynno, I thought the standard of refereeing at the Compak was exellent!!! You made it very clear that the rabbit had to be killed before the post, so if someone shot it after the post then they have to accept the zero. I second barrelled one of them from position 5 just before the post and you correctly called it dead, had it been two feet further on, I'm sure you would had correctly called it zero. Well done for sticking to your guns, you can't ask any more of a referee than to call it as they see it!!!

 

[FreeShot]

so much so that one tackled me at the end of his squads round to say he shot it before the post, but it broke after the post.

As far as refereeing goes (FITASC):

If the referee rules that a target has been shot behind a natural obstacle or shooting limit, no appeal against the referee’s decision is admissible.

By calling for the following target, the shooter accepts the referee’s ruling on the previous one.

If shooter concerned conspicuously challenge the referee’s rulings it is considered as attempt to influence the referee.

In the event of an attempt to influence a referee, the jury may penalise a shooter as follows:

- loss of one target;

- loss of a round of twenty-five targets;

- expulsion from the competition.

Now on occurrence it is an interesting one - something simillar happened to me earlier this year - I was shooting Compak on Styrian Championship (Austria). target was a rabbit that came rolling down the steep slope and continued on the flat terrain. Shooting limits were set from the foothill of the slope (marked with a post) till the wooden box (app 40 inches a side). On making a shot I just made it at the last possible moment and rabbit disappeared  behind the box but coming out form behind the box in 3 pieces (I admit - if it was a hit it was an extreme marginal one). In this case shot was clearly made inside the limits but break occured outside the limits. Referee scored a hit in my instance although he didn't see a clay break - maybe he was wrong? I din't look a gift horse in the mouth tho .

 

[Jeremy Baker]

I am sure Wyn was spot on but I had a situation in Holland where a rabbit had a limit. 

Killed it in the singles no problem 

The target was a report bird in the doubles. 

I killed it fair and square before the limit maybe a meter later than the singles and the ref called Zero. 

He was seated and not stood by me. 

Luckily Ed and Mrs S were there to rightfully fight for my target as I was in such disbelief I had to leave the peg.  

Refs must be in the right place to see the target at the limit from the shooters POV too. 

 

[Hamster]

Refs must be in the right place to see the target at the limit from the shooters POV too. 

This is often overlooked and quite possibly the rather avoidable cause of some disputed targets. Experienced refs make the effort to make sure they're seated correctly but younger, less accomplished scorers can fall into a trance when for instance they've been watching a particular bird be tackled consistently in a given spot and then someone turns up and clears the stand shooting them much later when the clay might be harder to pick out against the background. 

 

[Will Hewland]

I tend to shoot stuff fairly late, especially loopers. At my last two shoots I have hit them, but "behind the tree / bush" to the refs view because they were stood in a daft place. Luckily in each case other shooters corrected the refs for me.

 

[Nimbusgb]

I tend to shoot stuff fairly late, especially loopers. At my last two shoots I have hit them, but "behind the tree / bush" to the refs view because they were stood in a daft place. Luckily in each case other shooters corrected the refs for me.

Just a thought, would it not be a good idea to mention that to the ref before stepping in and calling for a target?

 

[Will Hewland]

Yesterday we did, as the squad in front had same problem. She wouldn't move as she thought it was easier to see the other target from where she was. (Which wasn't the problem).. Sigh.. There's an older chap scoring at Weston who needs to sit down, so his chair goes on the nicest flattest bit of ground, sometimes right behind the shooter and totally obscuring the clay..

 

[leighH]

It would help if instead of a thin post a board or bale was used as a limit marker, make such calls a lot easier.

Regards

Leigh

 

[shootinguru]

Wynn is an excellent referee !  He is fair and not  there to rob targets from any shooter. far too many CHEATS and  idiots in this game!

 

[Darkside]

I lost a target the day before at the FITASC Home International (same ground, same rabbit, same marker stick) on the rabbit in question (different ref) , came out and bounced horribly, missed 1st barrel, bounced again and smoked it a foot from the post...

"lost" 

"pardon...are you sure ref?"

"lost, I told you all the marker post is the limit"

 *squad member "he killed that before the post" 

"lost, that's my decision"

I accepted the refs decision, missed my next single through frustration (own fault), then got on with it!!! To be fair, the ref was two yards to my right, it probably was past the post or at least level with from where she was standing and she called it as she seen it. 50/50 some refs might have given it again (miss first barrel) if they weren't sure, but she was convinced.

I'm pretty sure I made more mistakes with shooting the FITASC, than ALL the refs mistakes added together over the whole weekend!!!

 

[Hamster]

I lost a target the day before at the FITASC Home International (same ground, same rabbit, same marker stick) on the rabbit in question (different ref) , came out and bounced horribly, missed 1st barrel, bounced again and smoked it a foot from the post...

"lost" 

"pardon...are you sure ref?"

"lost, I told you all the marker post is the limit"

 *squad member "he killed that before the post" 

"lost, that's my decision"

I accepted the refs decision, missed my next single through frustration (own fault), then got on with it!!! To be fair, the ref was two yards to my right, it probably was past the post or at least level with from where she was standing and she called it as she seen it. 50/50 some refs might have given it again (miss first barrel) if they weren't sure, but she was convinced.

I'm pretty sure I made more mistakes with shooting the FITASC, than ALL the refs mistakes added together over the whole weekend!!!

I get where you're going with this because hardly anyone ever loses a shoot because of a bad decision, our own silly mistakes do the real damage but what you describe is still a tiny bit silly because it suggests the posts location and its influence on the decisions being made were subject to perspective ? Surely that shouldn't be the case.