Maintained lead or pull away for skeet?

[GeordieTrapper]

What method is preferred by members, pull away and swing through seem too long to establish on a short crossing clay. Advice please

 

[Daz W]

Not much time on the clay, constant speed, constant trajectory > Maintained lead. Or so I've been taught. 

 

[Jan Powell]

What method is preferred by members, pull away and swing through seem too long to establish on a short crossing clay. Advice please

Do you mean English/National skeet, American skeet or the Olympic version? If it’s Olympic skeet then swing through, there’s no other way. For the others it’s a no brainier, maintained lead for all targets bar high 1 and low 7 which you shoot straight at. Maintained lead for high and low 8 too if you’re shooting the American version.

The swing though technique for skeet was popular up until the 1990’s when US coaching methods championed by Todd Bender, Wayne Mayes and latterly Paul Giambrone took over. It’s largely down to their teachings that skeet scores have climbed to 99/100 averages in recent years.

Maintained lead offers a far more systematic and controlled method of shooting gun up targets. The only time you'll see swing through is if you’ve cocked up seeing the target leave and are having to chase it down.

 

[k80ben]

All skeet shooting is best shot with maintained lead. English is easier but the Olympic version is the hardest and this is where maintained or almost a spot shot comes into play. 
 

if you watch any of my good friend Vinnie Hancock’s videos (best ever) u can see the maintained spot shot in action 

the lead is the same in its individual discipline all over the world and the line is the same so you may as well go straight to the space like the champs do

 

[ColinD]

I suppose this is why so many get caught out when the conditions are windy

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I shoot mainly Olympic and would argue that most stands are a cross between pull through and spot shot. And by that I mean seeing the target leave / cross the barrel so you know when to move through its line to the spot where you break it. That's what works for me, but I'm not anywhere near Vincent Hancocks level. At 60K+ shells a year, he likely sees things very differently than the mere mortals who are lucky to break 10K a year, if that.  

We are lucky enough to have windy conditions lots and lots, so pure spot shooting would be a lot trickier than it looks. Also -for me- that wouldn't work well on a pair, as I need the clay-to-clay cadence and like to move over at least of the flight path to ensure alignment.  

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Reviving this thread, as an aside from the amusing-but-confusing thread on "gun-fit":

It diverted to skeet I made remarks to for me, the lead on station 3 is different than I'd use on station 4, whereas Pete B. stated he could teach any beginner to hit every target on a skeet field in "hours" by using maintained lead only. I'll quote the relevant posts:

I shoot (Olympic) skeet almost exclusively (save for the Sporting skeet nationals and a little practice for same) and would not advise a beginner to shoot maintained lead on any skeet target. In my view, to shoot maintained lead you have to know trajectory and speed of the clay, which takes some getting used to. ML also requires a particularly consistent mount and swing speed. I use a little maintained lead on pairs at stations 3, 4 and 5, but shoot everything by letting the clay pass the barrel first. Maybe that's why I cannot compete with the likes of Vincent Hancock, but I can hold my own among lesser mortals.

Pete B. then said:

Please take a look at a plan of a skeet field. You will find that the flight line of the target from the low house is parallel to stations 3 and 4. The flight line of the target from the high house is parallel to stations 4 and 5.
The distance to the target and speed of the targets in each case is identical. If the distance to the targets is identical and the speed is identical, then the lead should be identical should it not? And if the target is passing your gun, your hold point is wrong.

Freddypip weighed in:

Luke – You are bang on. Olympic skeet – gun down and faster out the trap. You understand the 'process', and are not led by the lead alone (or at all, perhaps). I was assuming English Skeet and then saying it “may” work; I was trying to avoid being too judgmental !!

As did Bavarian:

If you let the clay pass and swing through it at Ol. Skeet you will be too slow on the pairs. Will work on other, not so fast skeet disciplines, but not on Ol. Skeet. The singles will work with swing through. The good guys have their hold point, view point and perfect foot position for every stand.
The movement goes from gun down right in front of the clay. When the mount is complete the lead is also complete and the shot breaks instantly.
Looks very easy and elegant but takes a lot of practice to score at a reasonable level.
The gap between to be fast enough, controlling your lead/ barrels and not to rush and get uncontrolled at the same time is not huge.
You could train sort of an automatism to move to the targets if they always fly exact the same way. But if they are not (wind) you will miss.
And the good shots are able to correct their movement and hit the clay as the are always aware of the position of their barrels and the target.
Olympic skeet is fascinating for me but also a huge challenge.

Followed by:

I missed a word in my post that you quoted. I should have said:

I use a little maintained lead on pairs at stations 3, 4 and 5, but shoot everything else by letting the clay pass the barrel first. Pairs on 1,2,6 and 7 aren't any harder for it. On stations 2 and 6 I tend to miss in front of the first clay if I rush to kill-point ahead of the clay. So for me, "swing-to" (as lead is very minimal) those clays works better than maintained, and certainly better than just stabbing the barrel out and waiting for the clay. If I do this right, I shoot the first bird about 1-2 meters in before the stake, and the second bird at ca. 4 meters past the stake. At my level, that's fast enough.

Of course a lot of this personal preference, style and method. Some guys I shoot with either hold their gun close to the stake or very near the house - and they shoot 20+ averages all day long. Wouldn't work for me, as I try for as small a movement from mount to kills as I can, but to each his own. I do shoot enough Olympic to know what works for me. I'm not saying I couldn't improve - I'd certainly love get more consistent but who wouldn't...

I wholly agree on the wind-thing. Our grounds really suffer from winds (close to the shore), so there's little reliance on automatism.

To which Bavarian replied:

I only shoot maintained lead on Ol. Skeet. This is a special dsicipline for me where I have to take every little chance to get faster for the doubles.
But the gap between to be too much in front and waiting for the clay (will be a miss) and to be too slow is not huge.
To get an average of 20+ i would have to train every week. So I´m fine with my 17s and 18s (and some 20s...) as I shoot it perhaps once in a month or even just every 6 weeks. And i have to admit not having the fastest reaction time and have to accept that.
But i take an advantage out of it as i have no problems with skeet- like targets on a sporting course.
And Station 8 is always fun.

Given that this is more easily retrievable for anyone interested in (Olympic) skeet here than in the somewhat infamous topic quoted above, I thought it would be nice to carve this out and continue here. So, to each and all: What method do you prefer for Olympic skeet, do you use varying techniques on different stations, and if so on which stations do you use what?

 

[paul b]

Love whatching the OSK pros they make it look so easy,only ever shot 2 rounds of it myself and it fried my brain,and vince hancock well look at his stuff on you tube,simply awsome.
Shot my best ever at english skeet this year and even did ok at a 50 bird nssa ,i use a bit of everything at it but im no skeet shot.

 

[SpanielLover]

Maintained for ISSF skeet. Swing through was used prior to the format change, after Barcelona 1992 (could be wrong on the date). As there are no incoming singles anymore the practical approach is to shoot the singles like done in doubles..fast .. maintained/spot shoot. If you break high 5 yds left of the centre stake the low has to be 5 yds right of the centre stake.. coming to your gun .. bang/bang.. easier said than done shoot all the Highfirst clays (low and high)to the high house side of the stake , and the second half of the course break on the low house side.

 

[Oldblaster]

Maintain lead all the way.

 

[Macc Ladd]

Both I’d say!!!

 

[Luke_(NL)]

If you break high 5 yds left of the centre stake the low has to be 5 yds right of the centre stake.. coming to your gun .. bang/bang.. easier said than done shoot all the Highfirst clays (low and high) to the high house side of the stake , and the second half of the course break on the low house side.

Easier said than done indeed... Given that the clays fly about twenty-one ish yards to the stake, shooting the first one before it has travelled 75 % of its flight path is well near top notch.

 

[SpanielLover]

Easier said than done indeed... Given that the clays fly about twenty-one ish yards to the stake, shooting the first one before it has travelled 75 % of its flight path is well near top notch.

If you can, try shooting just singles with the timer off. Hold out 1/3, bead under your eye and on the target line. Call and as you begin to see the clay clearly start turning your body with it at the same time feeling you are mounting the gun vertically to meet your shoulder and cheek.. if you try that and immediately fire you will probably miss well in front, which will show you that you have plenty of time .... definitely a case where less haste = more speed.
https://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx?mod=docf&pane=1&inst=494&file=1.Shotgun_ready_position.pdf

 

[bordergun]

Maintained. You can read about how and why each method works here:- www.peteblakeley.com Please click on LESSONS and on the drop down "No Magic Method" The article appeared in SC magazine in 2001.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

https://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx?mod=docf&pane=1&inst=494&file=1.Shotgun_ready_position.pdf

Thanks, hadn't seen this document before and I think its a useful resource. I think I'm usually quick enough to comfortably shoot the pairs, but doing it (more) consistently is my particular challenge. I still find myself adjusting stance, varying between pull away, swing through and maintained and trying to appreciate what works best for me. Our course is very wind sensitive, so that factors in a lot of my decisions.