One eye, both eyes, does it matter?

[jwpzx9r]

I think each post on this thread needs to be headed either TRAP or SPORTING. Otherwise we are all at cross purposes somewhat.

True Will... although I know of quite a few trap shooters when quite deliberately use a "seen lead" method. That is they quite clearly, and it is quite easy to spot their method, see the target and the point in the sky where the are going to shoot in the same frame as it were.

 

[Guest]

Personally I never see any lead when I shoot because I do not look at my gun... but it is there simply because I know where my barrels are pointing ensures that. All moving targets need lead if they are to be hit... some people shoot a method that is based on seeing that measure others use a method where they don't see the lead as such but know where their gun is pointing in relation to the target. So in summary going away trap targets do need lead and if you want to hit the target the amount of lead given has to be quite precise.

So, are you trying to say, straight away or straight incomer needs lead and not shot ‘at’?  :wacko: :huh:

I know I’m no expert like some of you guys, but where do you put the lead at a straight away/toward?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[jwpzx9r]

I know I’m no expert like some of you guys, but where do you put the lead at a straight away/toward?!?!?!?!?!?

The thing is there is no such thing a straight target the target is always falling... even when it looks like it is going straight away or even right towards you look at this link below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajectory

every target you shoot...  does the same.

 

[Bebo]

But the lead is very small on those sort of targets (even the angled targets on DTL).  The point that Will and the other sporting shooters are making is that on some sporting targets there is a gap between the position of the end of the gun and the clay that you could fit a double decker bus in, rather than a bus ticket.

 

[Sian]

If someone could just summarise where we are to date with this because I am getting lost.

 

[diver682]

How many times have you heard someone say on a sporting course , just shoot straight at it !!!

 

[jwpzx9r]

But the lead is very small on those sort of targets (even the angled targets on DTL).  The point that Will and the other sporting shooters are making is that on some sporting targets there is a gap between the position of the end of the gun and the clay that you could fit a double decker bus in, rather than a bus ticket.

None the less bebo that is why so many of these targets are missed by shooters... the say to themselves oh that is flat I can shoot straight at it... wrong!

 

[ips]

my head hurts and I simply have not the time or inclination to continue.

carry on

 

[Wonko the Sane]

my head hurts and I simply have not the time or inclination to continue.

carry on

Some quiet time and a little lie down will take care of that   :ahappy:

I'm sure that these "see the lead" discussions are fascinating to many but I just gotta tell ya it's the SOS every time and an easy search would relieve the forum of the clutter.

just a thot   :bye:

 

[Hamster]

If someone could just summarise where we are to date with this because I am getting lost.

Basically Trap shooters don't need to see leeeeaaad so they get confused when someone mentions daylight or gap. 

 

[Westward]

Basically Trap shooters don't need to see leeeeaaad so they get confused when someone mentions daylight or gap. 

And quite a lot of them close an eye too. :bye:

 

[schmokinn]

How many times have you heard someone say on a sporting course , just shoot straight at it !!!

Quite a few,especially where mini's are involved.

 

[Guest]

The thing is there is no such thing a straight target the target is always falling... even when it looks like it is going straight away or even right towards you look at this link below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajectory

every target you shoot...  does the same.

Unless thrown from height, the target must rise before it starts to fall!!! So your statement that “the target is always falling” is faulse and nonsense. When a shallow angle target is in the transition from riseing-falling, shooting perceived ‘at it’ will break it. An incoming crow at its apex needs to be shot ‘at’, before/after the apex is different. 

In my mind, there are two different meanings of shooting ‘at’ a clay. There’s the dead gun, rifling a crow at its apex, where the gun isn’t moving as you fire and you shoot ‘at’ the clay. The other is when you are shooting swing through, you start behind a clay needing very little lead, a mini slowing down for instance or a very slow driven, you start behind, swing through the clay moving slightly faster than the clay, and pull the trigger when the sight picture is of shooting ‘at’ the clay, with the gun still moving. Telling someone who shoots maintained lead to shoot ‘at’ that type of clay will in all probability result in a miss as there Gun is moving at the same speed as the clay

p.s. “every target you shoot does the same”

tell me how every rabbit clay is dropping....

 

[schmokinn]

Unless thrown from height, the target must rise before it starts to fall!!! So your statement that “the target is always falling” is faulse and nonsense. When a shallow angle target is in the transition from riseing-falling, shooting perceived ‘at it’ will break it. An incoming crow at its apex needs to be shot ‘at’, before/after the apex is different. 

In my mind, there are two different meanings of shooting ‘at’ a clay. There’s the dead gun, rifling a crow at its apex, where the gun isn’t moving as you fire and you shoot ‘at’ the clay. The other is when you are shooting swing through, you start behind a clay needing very little lead, a mini slowing down for instance or a very slow driven, you start behind, swing through the clay moving slightly faster than the clay, and pull the trigger when the sight picture is of shooting ‘at’ the clay, with the gun still moving. Telling someone who shoots maintained lead to shoot ‘at’ that type of clay will in all probability result in a miss as there Gun is moving at the same speed as the clay

p.s. “every target you shoot does the same”

tell me how every rabbit clay is dropping....

I have shot directly at many mini's with matched gun speed and not swung through.I shoot various techniques so am aware of what i am doing,swinging through these targets would lead to a miss in front unless you actually shot behind the clay very similar to close rabbits.

One shoot i go to invariably throws a very low crosser on a regular basis it does not have any perceptible rise in its flight path.

"An incoming crow at its apex needs to be shot ‘at’" i think you would find shooting at it when it has actually reached its apex will result in a miss as it will have started to drop before you register it doing so,so generally i would say you shoot at a fraction before it is where you think you are shooting straight at it before gravity takes over.

You seem to be good at making finite statements.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Unless thrown from height, the target must rise before it starts to fall!!! So your statement that “the target is always falling” is faulse and nonsense.

It is a difficult concept to grasp but in fact if you look at the target in relation to you the shooter, the eye of the shooter and what you see you could think that the target is travelling in a straight line but it is falling in a parabolic curve and it starts its return to earth immediately it is released from the trap. Yes it rises ... but not at a uniform rate... the effect of gravity has already factored in its downward vector. The effect of gravity is ever present it does not just kick in when a target slows down... although its effect is certainly at its most graphic at the top of the curve. An interesting illustration of this is if one was to drop an object in this case a bullet from a height from which at exactly the same instant a bullet fired exactly horizontally left the barrel of the gun, negating friction, both bullets would hit the ground at exactly the same instant . The velocity of the two objects actually is wildly different but their gravitational acceleration is the same.

 

[ips]

It is a difficult concept to grasp but in fact if you look at the target in relation to you the shooter, the eye of the shooter and what you see you could think that the target is travelling in a straight line but it is falling in a parabolic curve and it starts its return to earth immediately it is released from the trap. Yes it rises ... but not at a uniform rate... the effect of gravity has already factored in its downward vector. The effect of gravity is ever present it does not just kick in when a target slows down... although its effect is certainly at its most graphic at the top of the curve. An interesting illustration of this is if one was to drop an object in this case a bullet from a height from which at exactly the same instant a bullet fired exactly horizontally left the barrel of the gun, negating friction, both bullets would hit the ground at exactly the same instant . The velocity of the two objects actually is wildly different but their gravitational acceleration is the same.

I was out but now I am in again as I find the above very very interesting ?

 

[Bebo]

It is a difficult concept to grasp but in fact if you look at the target in relation to you the shooter, the eye of the shooter and what you see you could think that the target is travelling in a straight line but it is falling in a parabolic curve and it starts its return to earth immediately it is released from the trap. Yes it rises ... but not at a uniform rate... the effect of gravity has already factored in its downward vector. The effect of gravity is ever present it does not just kick in when a target slows down... although its effect is certainly at its most graphic at the top of the curve. An interesting illustration of this is if one was to drop an object in this case a bullet from a height from which at exactly the same instant a bullet fired exactly horizontally left the barrel of the gun, negating friction, both bullets would hit the ground at exactly the same instant . The velocity of the two objects actually is wildly different but their gravitational acceleration is the same.

What happens if the gun is tilted to fire the bullet on an upward trajectory?  That's what happens with many sporting clay targets.

 

[Westward]

What happens if the gun is tilted to fire the bullet on an upward trajectory?  That's what happens with many sporting clay targets.

Now you've done it! h34r:

 

[jwpzx9r]

What happens if the gun is tilted to fire the bullet on an upward trajectory?  That's what happens with many sporting clay targets.

Well that is a different story !   But if you imagine the shot at the apogee or top of the trajectory, if at that instant in time we could have another stationary 28g of shot and it was released they would all hit terra firma at the same time as their gravitational acceleration is the same. The distance they travel will be way different but the vertical component of the high velocity shot is the same as the stationary shot... this all has to happen in a vacuum ... everybody is dead :lol:  The only reason I even mentioned this is to illustrate that just because the shot from the gun or the clay from the trap has a high forward velocity it still is being acted upon by the force of gravity which causes it to follow a curve rather than straight line ... but you already know that so why am I typing this :lol:

 

[schmokinn]

Well that is a different story !   But if you imagine the shot at the apogee or top of the trajectory, if at that instant in time we could have another stationary 28g of shot and it was released they would all hit terra firma at the same time as their gravitational acceleration is the same. The distance they travel will be way different but the vertical component of the high velocity shot is the same as the stationary shot... this all has to happen in a vacuum ... everybody is dead :lol:  The only reason I even mentioned this is to illustrate that just because the shot from the gun or the clay from the trap has a high forward velocity it still is being acted upon by the force of gravity which causes it to follow a curve rather than straight line ... but you already know that so why am I typing this :lol:

Does not the shape of a standard clay not create lift?