One eye or two???

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JonSkeet2

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
1,191
Location
Berkshire
Hi All,After shooting for just over 2 years I have been trying to use both eyes despite severe cross dominance and have shot OK, some good days, some great and others that dire that I would sooner forget.  Best ever was a 96 at skeet in practice the week before the BO, 93 reg'd in Jan anyway I digress. I have tried putting tape on my glasses, vaseline etc. using an Easy Hit but with inconsistent results so reluctantly realise that I'm going to have to have both eyes open to see the first bird, then close the left before pulling the trigger. Can you see lead with both eyes open?  I can't, left eye closed then I can see it. Have any of you had this problem? any advice you can offer?  As i have decided to start shooting more sporting and getting into FITASC can anyone recommend a coach in the Berkshire area who can sort my gun fit and then help me on the sportingFITASC without having to sell a limb ;)  Cheers, Jon. 

 
I always take two eyes to every shoot with me, but only one works...

 
It might sound silly but you could try shooting from the other shoulder. My son is right handed but with a left master eye, he overcame the problem by shooting left handed. It obviously takes some time to get used to it.There are some great shots who only shoot with one eye open, that's another alternative. By the sound of it if you start with two eyes open and then close one eye just before shooting you may be sending confused messages to the brain on your perception of lead.Stewart

 
Jon, if you can't perceive lead with both eyes open but can with one, then I would say you're shooting too deliberately which is not going to help with a lot of targets at sporting.There are four choices, one eye, two, switch shoulder or close one just before firing, cross shoulder stocks are not a serious proposition.  All four systems can work extremely well so it's just a matter of finding the one that works for your needs. I'm interested in what you mean by severe dominance? I have a left master eye, the left one is a bit stronger but after trying various things I found that it actually isn't all that hard at all conditioning your vision and mental imagery to use the left barrel to do the firing. I say this because I see two sets of barrels as I soft focus over them looking for the bird but KNOW that the aimer is the one on the left.  You may find that you need to close the left eye just before, this isn't a problem really as the majority of the calculations are done early on in the mount. Inconsistency isn't necessarily the fault of the system you adopt in a session, it could be you after all. It may well be that a combination of things will work wonders. There is no harm in having a tiny bit of vaseline on the right part of your glasses, maybe combined with a bit of eye dimming and using the right beads. I didn't get on with the Easy bead because they're too large. There is a custom rib maker in the US who manufactures ribs with a built in sunken bead that cannot be seen with the non aiming eye, this sounds pretty good to me. When I have my Zoli worked on eventually I intend to see if that can be incorporated into the set up. One thing I would emphasise is that scoring poorly on a stand is not proof that something you tried regarding your cross dominance isn't working, remember there will be dozens of correct shoulder/eye shooters having poor rounds too.  Practice is your friend.

 
I 'm not really seeing too much problem here mate to be honest.You've only  been shooting for two years and yet you have had a score of 96 at skeet.Believe me there's not too much your doing wrong at skeet with a score like that.We all have our bad days and good days and most are just mediocre so don't go beating yourself up just yet.If your still doing it in 15 years time then maybe start worrying a bit, just maybe.Sounds to me to just practice, practice, practice, oh and a lot more practice.Sporting and fitasc is very different yes, but skeet is a very good place to start.You will start to see lead when shooting Sporting/FITASC  as you saw when shooting at Wylye. Doesn't matter who you are, your going to see lead on a 40yd + crosser. It's just practice and more practice.Find a 30yd crosser and use a box or two on it. Do it for a few weeks and then find a similar crosser from the other direction and work on that. Don't do both on the same day though. Give your brain time to settle it into your subconscious.If you can't get on it, a good little tip is……try to purposely miss it slightly in front.  As missing it behind is common with skeet shooters as they don't see lead or the lead they see is slight.But practice mate and remember to remember what you have learnt. When you get it right just stop for a few seconds and remember…run the video back in your mind and have a look at what you did….and then do it again….and again./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gifLet me know how you get on, do you have problems with getting on or in front of left to rights or right to lefts etc. Let me know but give it a month or two and practice because it won't happen over night./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
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I agree with Robert, it's kind of what I was trying to say, 96 is more than I'd manage at skeet and I can shoot sporting a bit. Bad stands or rounds happen to everyone.  People often say you should always shoot instinctively, but for me the only way to suss problem targets is to be aware why you miss so you can alter the site picture, not necessarily by lead alone, sometimes tiny alterations in pre-prep and pick up or gun speed are enough.

 
I overcame most of my eye issues when I first started by shooting gun down, lock in on the bird, mount gun as I pulled onto and through it I half closed my left eye. Along with new glasses and the Easy Hit bead I have started to gain some confidence again. As for coaches down here, I can recommend Mike Self who works at Churchills, he is a good bloke and very competant. He will also check your gun fit and address any other issues you have, If you want his number give me a bell later and I'll put you in touch. Failing that we should get up to Lou Ameys shoot one weekend and see him, he is also another good coach who I would recommend. That could be another forum day out, at a well set up 100 bird non reg one weekend???

 
ROBERT6500 said:

I 'm not really seeing too much problem here mate to be honest.You've only  been shooting for two years and yet you have had a score of 96 at skeet.Believe me there's not too much your doing wrong at skeet with a score like that.We all have our bad days and good days and most are just mediocre so don't go beating yourself up just yet.If your still doing it in 15 years time then maybe start worrying a bit, just maybe.Sounds to me to just practice, practice, practice, oh and a lot more practice.Sporting and fitasc is very different yes, but skeet is a very good place to start.You will start to see lead when shooting Sporting/FITASC  as you saw when shooting at Wylye. Doesn't matter who you are, your going to see lead on a 40yd + crosser. It's just practice and more practice.Find a 30yd crosser and use a box or two on it. Do it for a few weeks and then find a similar crosser from the other direction and work on that. Don't do both on the same day though. Give your brain time to settle it into your subconscious.If you can't get on it, a good little tip is……try to purposely miss it slightly in front.  As missing it behind is common with skeet shooters as they don't see lead or the lead they see is slight.But practice mate and remember to remember what you have learnt. When you get it right just stop for a few seconds and remember…run the video back in your mind and have a look at what you did….and then do it again….and again./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gifLet me know how you get on, do you have problems with getting on or in front of left to rights or right to lefts etc. Let me know but give it a month or two and practice because it won't happen over night./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif
When you say everyone see,s lead,i know of several people who shoot sporting and shoot it well but never see lead,i've never quite understood this as i see lead on all targets from a few inches to maybe 20 feet
 
People who do not see lead on a target move the gun a lot faster. I shoot maintained lead on longer targets but swing thru close targets.

 
Thanks all for the input,  it's very much appreciated ;)  The 96 was a very very very good day :) but at the beginning of the year was consistently shooting reasonably well in the range of 87-93 at skeet. Before the BO I was shooting around 1000-1200 skeet targets a month and really felt I was getting somewhere then shot my second worst reg'd score at the BO so have pretty much taken 2 months out and have just done the occasional sporting shoot and a few of rounds of skeet. Shot the County doubles yesterday and did OK with the one eye technique and ended up on 71 which with the wind I was really happy with and the scores were down across the board.  I reckon the lack of practice and timing being off plus 1 eye lost me at least 10 birds so it's back to practice practice practice ;)  Hamster, what I mean by severely cross dominant is that it changes frequently.  I have just checked it 3 times in a 30 minute period and it's gone from left to right and back to left again! /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif Cheers, Jon.

 
The people who don't see lead are very focussed on the target which is absolutely accentual. Most will be swinging at a fair old rate of knots which makes them pull the trigger more or less on the bird. How ever what they don't realise is that it actually takes micro seconds for the brain to send the message to the finger and for the finger to pull the trigger and the lead shot to leave the gun. By the time its all been done and on its way, the target has moved several feet, particularly if its a fast target,  i.e FITASC. Believe me if they say they don't see lead on a 50yrd crosser they are either lying or they are so focused on the target that they can't even see the gun in their periferal vision where it should be. The thing is its the periferal vision that gives you lead if you do it right.Lead has to be there on a crosser./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
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Wow, never come across that kind of rapid change before. Having said that I'd still say if you can learn a variation of what I do, that is be aware of the left barrel being the shooter, then in theory your eye switch shouldn't matter so much. Optima - same here, I see lead as a very distinct feature of most of my shooting. There are times I don't lead a target but that's a different matter. Deep down I think people who say that don't quite mean it literally, it is after all impossible to hit long crossers with no lead, the kind of rapid gun movement you'd need to fool your eyes into the optical illusion of no lead would not only look odd but also be bound to introduce all sorts of problems of it's own.

 
well explained Robert, what do u make of Hamster's " left barrel being the shooter"

 
I'm reluctant to make any suggestions as without seeing you shoot there are literally dozens of potential problems/solutions/reasons behind it.I would saythough you are still quite green, and will have the odd brilliant day mixed in with (probably more) horrific days. Don't take the good day as being your target week in week out, as you will only get despondent. What I know about skeet you can write on a gag packet but if your up my way when I'm coaching next feel free to pop over for a chat re sporting and can discuss having seen you shoot.

 
Hawkeye said:

well explained Robert, what do u make of Hamster's " left barrel being the shooter"
  I don't see two sets of barrels once I'm mounted and into the bird but when addressing the line of the bird and looking out over the barrels I see two barrels and I know I'm not unique in this way. What I mean is that if you want to shoot using your right eye then it's imperative that you know which of these is the one doing the shooting. If you close your left eye the right barrel disappears leaving your right (weaker eye) in line with the barrel. If you allow the right barrel to point at the clay then you'll cross fire and miss by yards.
 
JonSkeet said:Hamster, what I mean by severely cross dominant is that it changes frequently.  I have just checked it 3 times in a 30 minute period and it's gone from left to right and back to left again!Cheers,Jon.Jon, I have a similar problem although my dominance doesn't change that quick. If my shooting suddenly starts to deteriorate during a round I now know that it's a warning of an imminent migraine attack.What happens is that my dominance changes from right to left and at that point I may as well get in my car and go home before my brain starts to hurt.What I have also noticed is that I seem unable to concentrate and concentration is very important,more so to some than others.I have tried all the 'fixes' for dominance problems,none of which worked,presumably because the problem isn't permanent. Vic.

 
shootclay admin said:

EdSolomons said:
 What I know about skeet you can write on a gag packet
 Do you get them in a joke shop? Or 'elsewhere'? 
I'm guessing down a back alley in Soho ;) .. Jon.

 
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