"Pair lost"?

[CharlesP]

What's the general feeling here about the ref calling out the score as in "Pair killed" or "Pair lost" as you shoot?

Personally I like to hear what he or she thinks happened; sometimes because I know it was only a tiny chip, sometimes because I genuinely don't know if I missed the target. But I'm aware that some may find it distracting.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Will Hewland]

I would definitely rather hear it called. The usual protocol from old school refs is only to call out losses, but as you don’t know what the scorer on each stand will do usually, it’s a minefield.. Four Counties are one of the few grounds I know that drill the scorers to all act in the same way. (Including calling the next shooter before your last pair, which is annoying. Should be done before first pair IMO). 

 

[Sian]

If they call the losses it saves the irritating scenario of walking away and then realising they did not score you properly.  Sometimes you can see shooters have that moment of "did they didn't they see that" and they haven't finished - this obviously is a distraction to concentration so better the ref actually says what they see and if there is a query it can be questions at the time.

 

[Hamster]

Great question which can avoid a good deal of hassle with disputes, in my experience only the older more experienced refs seem to understand the importance of calling out hit/miss etc, immediately after each pair is shot, far too often you're left wondering whether others and in particular the scorer can see what you see particularly on simmo pairs which have no definite order of being shot or where a bird is having to be shot late when obscured by a dark background. 

I rarely question a score but was once scored a 6 when I KNOW I crushed 9, the scorer was simply not experienced enough to move to get a view of where I'd decided to kill the harder bird, I wasn't best pleased and made a complaint to the ground staff. I also try and check the score as I'm stepping out of the stand but even that is not necessarily good enough because trying to explain you DID hit the second bird can look like badgering, simple answer is the scorer must be schooled to at the very least call out losses.

 

[Will Hewland]

Spot on Hamid. At least if they call a loss erroneously you have a good chance of the waiting shooters correcting the scorer, which I find they usually do.

 

[Salopian]

A very good topic .

I think possibly the fairest option is to only call losses as they occur , allowing a dispute to be resolved immediately . If you are in the zone you really do not need to be disturbed by "scored ,lost , pair scored, Bill Smith to shoot next , last pair."

If it was explained that only lost targets will be called , after last pair you are commanded to unload please and next shooter on the stand with who is to follow there should be no disturbances or disputes..

If you call losses as they occur they can be acknowledged or disputed and possibly score corrected immediately .

It is no use disputing a score after 5 other squad members have shot  ! The score will remain the same . LOST.

 

[Will Hewland]

A very good topic .

I think possibly the fairest option is to only call losses as they occur , allowing a dispute to be resolved immediately . If you are in the zone you really do not need to be disturbed by "scored ,lost , pair scored, Bill Smith to shoot next , last pair."

If it was explained that only lost targets will be called , after last pair you are commanded to unload please and next shooter on the stand with who is to follow there should be no disturbances or disputes..

If you call losses as they occur they can be acknowledged or disputed and possibly score corrected immediately .

It is no use disputing a score after 5 other squad members have shot  ! The score will remain the same . LOST.

Now if you wouldn’t mind nipping around all my local shoots and telling the scorers please Peter. Much appreciated.

 

[timps]

Seeing as it’s in the CPSA rule book that it is mandatory for the ref to call out losses but optional for hits it shouldn’t be an issue as either of those options work for me. However, because I live in the real world and I know this doesn’t always happen for a variety of reasons I do like a ref that either calls out hits and lost or informs me before we start that they are only calling out losses.  

To be fair I should ask if they intend to call out before I shoot but I never seem to ask so I have to shoulder some of the blame for complacency with the more inexperienced refs.

 

[Alan Rowley]

Salopian is probebly one the most experienced refs, I have the honour of working with I've only reffed 10 English, 12 British championships and 2 world championships ( ok, 1 1/2 worlds)

so do not profess to be as experienced, I have found that if you ask the squad what they prefer to hear before they shoot, most will only want losses calling on that particular pair, lost kill or kill lost, because when you have 300 shooters going through, believe me you really get bored of calling each pair, I always get in the best position to see the targets and if any anyone asks "how many more ref" I always show them a hand gesture, I got into a terrible argument once when I first started because the gentleman ( let's call him that ) was put off by the calls, I never ever tell anyone last pair, ( it peees me off when I hear it) the ref should tell you when to start , tell you when to unload and ensure the safety of the people in the vicinity

and call clearly enough to be heard when calling but not to patronise the shooter  

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

Personal preference is for only losses to be called. I hate ref's saying 'Final Pair'!

 

[both barrels]

Another possible solution is to ask the scorer to call out any losses as you enter the stand to shoot ?

 

[bugsey hogan]

I have on occasion had killed bird called When I have not noticed a very chippy hit helpful but could this be construde as coaching.