Having read numerous posts on here and elsewhere, i just wonder what are peoples perception of a reliable shotgun. Having been shooting for around 45 years, the ONLY problem i have had was with a new Franchi semi auto in the mid seventies. It just kept failing to cycle. It went back a few times and in the end was replaced. I shoot an MX12 most of the time now and nothing has gone wrong with it, the same goes for my other guns, some of which have had over 60k + through them. If you take a car in for an MOT and it fails on a split cv boot, you cough up, job done, but woe betide a gun that breaks a spring, ejector, cocking rod, or anything else, the world comes to an end! I do think sometimes it needs to be put into perspective.
Peoples perception of reliability
- Thread starter MJJ
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Funny that Tony had a Franchi semi auto which he won back in the 90s which only ever had about 100 cartridges through it and was for ever jamming.
ips
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over thirty years of shotguns, approx twenty of them. Goodness knows how many shots fired. The only problems I have ever had are..
various Beretta with ejector timing out (common no big deal)
parker hale firing pin replaced after ten years of very heavy use. (wear and tear)
horrible trigger creep on DT10X (it got off loaded after three attempts to sort it)
second barrell intermittently not firing on Beretta 687 (eventually sorted after three attempts by smith)
various Beretta with ejector timing out (common no big deal)
parker hale firing pin replaced after ten years of very heavy use. (wear and tear)
horrible trigger creep on DT10X (it got off loaded after three attempts to sort it)
second barrell intermittently not firing on Beretta 687 (eventually sorted after three attempts by smith)
Bebo
Well-known member
Three in five years, although I still have two of the three.
Silver Pigeon 1 - no reliability problems at all. Only changed because it was entry level and I felt after shooting for a couple of years I would benefit from an upgrade.
DT10 - infrequent opening on firing second barrel that was solved by the replacement of the locking bar. It's an old gun so not surprising it needed doing. Only bought the Parcours because I liked the balance even more and felt that the 28" barrels on the DT10 might have been hampering me on some of the longer crossers I was starting to have to deal with at Reg shoots.
K80 Parcours - no reliability problems at all. I don't put it all down to the gun, but my CPSA ESP average went from 58.2% in period 50 (the one before I bought it) to 73.65% today, so I'm not going to complain about it.
The Parcours and DT10 are both keepers and I reckon I will only sell them if I ever give up shooting or am in dire financial straits (which means I'd probably have to give up shooting anyway).
Silver Pigeon 1 - no reliability problems at all. Only changed because it was entry level and I felt after shooting for a couple of years I would benefit from an upgrade.
DT10 - infrequent opening on firing second barrel that was solved by the replacement of the locking bar. It's an old gun so not surprising it needed doing. Only bought the Parcours because I liked the balance even more and felt that the 28" barrels on the DT10 might have been hampering me on some of the longer crossers I was starting to have to deal with at Reg shoots.
K80 Parcours - no reliability problems at all. I don't put it all down to the gun, but my CPSA ESP average went from 58.2% in period 50 (the one before I bought it) to 73.65% today, so I'm not going to complain about it.
The Parcours and DT10 are both keepers and I reckon I will only sell them if I ever give up shooting or am in dire financial straits (which means I'd probably have to give up shooting anyway).
I've been reffing at sporting comps for about 5 years and in that time I've witnessed a fair number of gun problems. Excluding faulty shells, the 2 most common by far are jammomatics (no surprise there) and also light strikes resulting in a failure to fire on Miroku/Browning guns; usually the bottom barrel.
The next most common problem gun without a doubt would have to be Krieghoff. I can't honestly say how many I've seen, it's not a lot and I don't think any were terminal, but it's probably more than all the other main makes combined - apart from Miroku/Browning of course.
I've no recollection of ever seeing a Perazzi, CG, Beretta or Blaser go wrong or fail to fire.
Just my experience of course. Your mileage may vary...
The next most common problem gun without a doubt would have to be Krieghoff. I can't honestly say how many I've seen, it's not a lot and I don't think any were terminal, but it's probably more than all the other main makes combined - apart from Miroku/Browning of course.
I've no recollection of ever seeing a Perazzi, CG, Beretta or Blaser go wrong or fail to fire.
Just my experience of course. Your mileage may vary...
Bebo
Well-known member
Interesting. My husbands Browning 725 has an intermittent fail to fire issue on the bottom barrel. He also sometimes experiences the force needed to pull the trigger increasing dramatically on the second barrel. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's cost him a target when it does.
What's been the Kreighoff issue? Failure to fire?
I have never had a problem with my MX8 that could be termed a reliability issue. I bought it second hand and almost two years after I bought it the bottom barrel hammer spring broke. Big deal it took me less than five minutes to replace and to be honest I have no idea how many shots it had fired before I got the gun but I had fired about 20k by then. I have not had to replace the springs since then that is two years now... However I actually view hammer springs as a consumable that should be rep[laced when needed I shoot at a ground where one of the guys has a CG Maximus trap gun and he does have a problem issue at least once in every two rounds he gets a double discharge ... not a problem if you have broken the target with the first BUT... smith said he could find no problem with the trigger??
I can forgive a clay gun that needs bits every five years or so, my Beretta's have gone double that and some have needed nothing ever, what I wouldn't put up with is a gun that costs the wrong side of £5 grand which ftf's even once in any shape or form, no sir, if you talk the talk then you must walk the walk.
Hamid ,
Whatever gun would do that ? Surely it must be the owner , not pulling the trigger correctly , after all a yearly service at £150 labour plus parts would safeguard against that happening ever wouldn't it ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
My experience has been that reliability seems to be related to a large degree to proper care of the gun. Some people's conception of what that entails is nothing less than appalling. And trigger problems - - when you get right down to it triggers are really simple mechanisms. OK, that's a lie - KG triggers are a horror but most everything else is fine. When someone tells me that a modern trigger refuses to be sorted my first response is, "Dude! Find someone that knows WTF they're doing!" Seriously.
I could relate a tale of doubling that I experienced but it's too long. The short version is that the whole gun as a collection of interrelated components may need to be considered to attend to a seemingly isolated problem.
I could relate a tale of doubling that I experienced but it's too long. The short version is that the whole gun as a collection of interrelated components may need to be considered to attend to a seemingly isolated problem.
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The 725 is not very different from previous Brownings and uses the same firing pins. It's a fact - as distinct from an opinion - that the firing pins on Mirokus and Brownings erode due to pitting at the tip. No one seems to know why or why it's usually worse on the bottom barrel. Italian firing pins don't seem have this problem. Variable trigger pull weight is just another quirk with these guns along with a sticky top lever when opening the gun. Of course, they don't all do all these things (although my Miroku did) but you would think that after 50+ years producing the same tweaked version of a 90 year old design they could make them a bit less agricultural.
the last two Krieghoff issues I witnessed happened within minutes of each other and of all places to happen it was at the Krieghoff Sporting Masters a couple of months ago. The 1st was just a regular old FTF with a light strike on the primer. He refired the shell and it worked. I heard somewhere that Krieghoffs have a similar problem with erosion caused by hard primers. The 2nd fault was a Parcours belonging to a local guy I know. The hammer just didn't drop, then, when he tried to open the gun it was really stiff. What actually went wrong was that the hammer(s) hadn't cocked due to the stiff opening. He overcame the problem with brute force.
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chippy
Well-known member
Its a pity that Browning/miroku cannot find out what steel Beretta use in their firing pins.
schmokinn
Well-known member
"No one seems to know why or why it's usually worse on the bottom barrel"
Worse on the bottom barrel because of the angle it is set at where as the top is not :ahappy:
Worse on the bottom barrel because of the angle it is set at where as the top is not :ahappy:
Very interesting I was shooting last winter and the guy to my left shooting at DT10 tries to take his shot but the gun would not oblige ? Takes trigger unit out spring broken could he fix it ... could he F ... game over!
My perception of reliability is a gun that does what it was designed and built for , to shoot trouble free from one annual service until the next.
Sadly that now seems to be a thing of the past .
After having a service my gun then displayed a ftf regularly , which it had never done previously , repaired it then regularly double discharged , which apparently was due to the clothing I wore whilst shooting .
Sadly that now seems to be a thing of the past .
After having a service my gun then displayed a ftf regularly , which it had never done previously , repaired it then regularly double discharged , which apparently was due to the clothing I wore whilst shooting .
It strikes me that perceptions of reliability are somewhat dependant upon the price point of the gun or the image that it has. In other words expectation has a lot to do with how we feel about any negatives or problems a gun might have. Certainly it's true in the world of car ownership.
I remember some years back that a Skoda came top in an reliability survey among new car buyers, yet the mechanically identical Golfs and A3s with much higher owner expectations were well down the list.
If someone is buying a £9K+ gun, new or used, they surely expect near perfection in every aspect of the gun, whereas someone else buying a sub £1K gun probably doesn't. And if both guns broke a firing pin, the owner of the cheaper gun might just shrug it off whilst the owner of the expensive one would probably be fuming.
I remember some years back that a Skoda came top in an reliability survey among new car buyers, yet the mechanically identical Golfs and A3s with much higher owner expectations were well down the list.
If someone is buying a £9K+ gun, new or used, they surely expect near perfection in every aspect of the gun, whereas someone else buying a sub £1K gun probably doesn't. And if both guns broke a firing pin, the owner of the cheaper gun might just shrug it off whilst the owner of the expensive one would probably be fuming.
I have never had my gun serviced in the nearly four years I have had it ... that's not a boast though I know that for a number of reasons you would want to have a certified gun technician check you gun to make sure all is well. Other than a broken hammer spring the gun has functioned faultlessly ... why get something that is not broken mended? I notice that the key on my gun is now starting to head toward the centre of the action which I believe is a sign that the H bolt needs replaced so next year when at Lonato I will take it to Brescia for a going over at Perazzi .
