Procedure for malfunction on single target

[Bradley Clements]

I was wondering if someone could help clear this up for me, I'm shooting my first competition in Essex in a fortnight and wanted to be clear on the rules:

PROCEDURE FOR MALFUNCTION ON SINGLE TARGET
7.14 If after firing the first shot at a single target, a gun or cartridge malfunction occurs (providing it 
is not the third or subsequent malfunction on that stand) and the target has not been hit, the Referee shall 
instruct the competitor to reload their gun with two cartridges. The competitor will then be instructed to 
call for a new target but to miss with the first shot and attempt to hit the target with the second shot. If the 
new target is hit with the first shot it will be declared lost.

The section "miss with the first shot and attempt to hit the target with the second shot. If the 
new target is hit with the first shot it will be declared lost" confuses me a little. Is it saying that if I have a pair again due to a malfunction on the second shot, after missing the first bird of the pair, that if I hit the first bird on the retaken pair I am penalised a point, or that the first bird is still lost. For example if I were to miss bird 1 of pair A. And then my second cartridge failed. If I then retook the pair and killed both birds it would only actually count as one miss and one kill? 

I hope my question makes sense

 

[Simster]

I think this applies to Trap e.g. DTL or ABT or similar, where only a "single" target is thrown but you have full use or both barrels.

So in DTL you call again and have to miss with the first shot (which is worth 3 points) but if you get it with the second shot you will only get 2 points.

if the comp your are doing is the Essex Masters it will not apply as its ESP and will mostly be report pairs or simultaneous pairs occasionally 4 single targets as the last stand on each round. But if a malfunctions occurs the ref will usually give you 3 chances before bird is lost.

I'm sure others will correct the above if I've got it wrong

Cheers

ps I'll be at the Masters on Saturday morning second squad out hopefully

 

[Rosso]

Sounds like Compak. Happened to me on a rabbit. Single,  Missed it first barrel then it broke on its own, got it again as no bird but had to miss it first barrel.

stupid stupid rule.

 

[paul b]

Your getting mixed up with the rules quoted are for aSINGLE ONLY not two singles equaling a pair.

 

[bisondan]

Sounds like Compak. Happened to me on a rabbit. Single,  Missed it first barrel then it broke on its own, got it again as no bird but had to miss it first barrel.

stupid stupid rule.

Wasn't that on the sportrap at Southdown?

 

[westley]

This used to apply in DTL, if you missed with 1st. barrel then claimed gun malfunction. Bird again, but must miss with first barrel and attempt to kill it with the second barrel. Do not know if it still applies.

 

[Rosso]

Wasn't that on the sportrap at Southdown?

Whatever it was on its a stupid rule that I never heard of. What a waste of a shell.

its stupid rules like this that no one really understands on what is a rare occurrence that need dropping.  

Rule should also be the same for single / report, trailing pairs and simo pairs. ie all hits count not pair again nothing established or first bird counts etc etc.

 

[wylye]

I know....... lets not have any rules at all then the referees can stay at home and the ground will save about a grand in wages. Shoots could be self-refereed and that would save a lot of messing about.

I think it would last about ten days before someone on here would be whining that it wasn't fair.

 

[Rosso]

I know....... lets not have any rules at all then the referees can stay at home and the ground will save about a grand in wages. Shoots could be self-refereed and that would save a lot of messing about.

I think it would last about ten days before someone on here would be whining that it wasn't fair.

Not being anti- ref, they do a cracking job. Just maybe every now and then the rules need tweaking / simplifying. They recently changed the rule on seeing a pair from in the stand. Why can't the rule be the same for report and sim either way, would stop all the bickering on stands. Help the young scorers may be. That single rule I had never heard of it, perhaps you can advise what dicipline it's from in reply to the O/P. 

Jmo

wylye - it is stupid rule. You have to deliberately miss it first barrel then hit it second barrel, crikey it goes against the laws of hitting the things which we are supposed to be doing.

 

[PhilR]

This used to apply in DTL, if you missed with 1st. barrel then claimed gun malfunction. Bird again, but must miss with first barrel and attempt to kill it with the second barrel. Do not know if it still applies.

Dunno about DTL but it applies to UT, ABT and OT.

 

[ips]

yes this applies to dtl also. A very difficult thing it is too.

 

[Darkside]

wylye - it is stupid rule. You have to deliberately miss it first barrel then hit it second barrel, crikey it goes against the laws of hitting the things which we are supposed to be doing.

Rosso, It's NOT a stupid rule...if you have missed a single rabbit with the first barrel and clay breaks of its own accord BEFORE you fire the second barrel...the first shot is established as a LOSS, you get it again, so you MUST miss with the 'loss 1st barrel' before attempting to shoot it with the second barrel...NOT stupid, entirely FAIR.

 

[Rosso]

Rosso, It's NOT a stupid rule...if you have missed a single rabbit with the first barrel and clay breaks of its own accord BEFORE you fire the second barrel...the first shot is established as a LOSS, you get it again, so you MUST miss with the 'loss 1st barrel' before attempting to shoot it with the second barrel...NOT stupid, entirely FAIR.

Perhaps I'm just a  thick idiot who feels firing deliberately to miss is errr stupid. ?However it is a rule and as such fair?. It's always nice when something you don't know about comes out and gobsmacks you. It did  make me and others there chuckle at the time.? Especially when I missed the rabbit 2nd shot as well.?

 

[westley]

Perhaps I'm just a  thick idiot who feels firing deliberately to miss is errr stupid.

 Well stupid or not, I have been doing it for years, honestly, it becomes easy after a while.

P.S. Have you taken that Parrot to see Eddie the Eagle yet   ?

 

[Bradley Clements]

Not being anti- ref, they do a cracking job. Just maybe every now and then the rules need tweaking / simplifying. They recently changed the rule on seeing a pair from in the stand. Why can't the rule be the same for report and sim either way, would stop all the bickering on stands. Help the young scorers may be. That single rule I had never heard of it, perhaps you can advise what dicipline it's from in reply to the O/P. 

Jmo

wylye - it is stupid rule. You have to deliberately miss it first barrel then hit it second barrel, crikey it goes against the laws of hitting the things which we are supposed to be doing.

This is in the ESP section of the CPSA Booklet 7 - Technical Rules from 16th May 2011.

And yes I will be at the masters on Saturday, can't remember what time we are starting though

 

[westley]

Does it still apply if you fire the second barrel first ?

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

This is in the ESP section of the CPSA Booklet 7 - Technical Rules from 16th May 2011.

And yes I will be at the masters on Saturday, can't remember what time we are starting though

We start 9.45 Bradley so sadly an early start.

 

[Richard59]

I was wondering if someone could help clear this up for me, I'm shooting my first competition in Essex in a fortnight and wanted to be clear on the rules:

PROCEDURE FOR MALFUNCTION ON SINGLE TARGET
7.14 If after firing the first shot at a single target, a gun or cartridge malfunction occurs (providing it 
is not the third or subsequent malfunction on that stand) and the target has not been hit, the Referee shall 
instruct the competitor to reload their gun with two cartridges. The competitor will then be instructed to 
call for a new target but to miss with the first shot and attempt to hit the target with the second shot. If the 
new target is hit with the first shot it will be declared lost.

The section "miss with the first shot and attempt to hit the target with the second shot. If the 
new target is hit with the first shot it will be declared lost" confuses me a little. Is it saying that if I have a pair again due to a malfunction on the second shot, after missing the first bird of the pair, that if I hit the first bird on the retaken pair I am penalised a point, or that the first bird is still lost. For example if I were to miss bird 1 of pair A. And then my second cartridge failed. If I then retook the pair and killed both birds it would only actually count as one miss and one kill? 

I hope my question makes sense

Put simply it's the first target of a report pair, you've missed it, its a lost target, then your malfunction, if deemed so by the referee he/she allows you a repeat of that same pair, so irrespective of whether you hit it, the first target that is it's still/ already recorded as "lost" I think you're reading too much into the "miss with the first shot" bit. 

 

[Darkside]

Put simply it's the first target of a report pair, you've missed it, its a lost target, then your malfunction, if deemed so by the referee he/she allows you a repeat of that same pair, so irrespective of whether you hit it, the first target that is it's still/ already recorded as "lost" I think you're reading too much into the "miss with the first shot" bit. 

 sorry Rich...where he's got that wrong. He's talking about report pairs, but he's asking about the rule for SINGLE 'full use of gun' target missed with the first shot, then having a gun malfunction with the second shot...