Proper Cartridges

[Hamster]

This is aimed at George at the above company, I did consider pm'ing him but came to the conclusion that both he and many others here and elsewhere could benefit from the potential outcome. I would respectfully ask people to please kindly refrain from posting superfluous info or gems such as recoil is subjective or get your gun fit sorted etc, as the aim is to see whether George can even help or compete with other manufacturers.

I may be wrong but my take is that the main problem for Proper Cartridges has always been one of distribution and breaking the hold of the big boys who in some cases even refuse to allow certain dealers from supplying their shells. The boom in home shopping in the past decade as we have all witnessed has meant that delivery of even cheaper items is no longer really a problem and delivery charges can be kept to very reasonable levels, with this in mind I would like to ask :

Can you please give me a price for loading a clay cartridge in :

plastic wad with 28g size 8 (2.2mm) of hardish shot (5% ?), the same quality of shot that can be found in mid level competition shells such as Eley Superbs and Fiocchi F3 or FBlack etc, 

metal height unimportant so no need for 20mm if costs and performance can be maintained at say 12mm or even less ?

no need for 8 star crimp as long as they're well made in ordinary 6 star and generally up to the mark 

RECOIL is important, I don't like slow shells so want some speed but no need for fastest in any shape or form, again looking for mid level competition shell speeds around those mentioned already, I personally consider FBlacks to be a tad too much, the likes of Black or even White Gold are again too punchy, Eley Superb territory or even less if breaking ability is not compromised. 

Availability is important, I have always tended to stick to the same shell for as many years as possible so need to be able to muster supplies in no more than about a week from e-mail.

What price per thou and what quantity to avoid delivery charges, eg, can you do three thou runs to customers or must a group put a minimum order of 10k ? 

If this gets anywhere you can call them ShootClay Socialist Comp or Hamster 8 Revolution, in time the 6.5's can be called Uprising Fitasc.

All the best and look forward to hearing from you. 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

excellent post  myself and lots of fellow clayshooters  in the midlands are on red alert  !    I am told George is only interested in game shells ?  

 

[Rupert]

Sure he has some clay shells on his website

 

[DavidJ]

From searching the web it would seem his website hasn't changed in years. 

I asked earlier in this thread about a competition shell and he suggested I ring him. I'd rather have an answer on here for everyone to see.

I wad at the Northern Shooting Show yesterday and I did see his cartridges on one stand, they were only heavy game loads as the stand was predominantly wildfowl equipment.

 

[Garwood]

He can certainly load a good shell .I bought 1k 1oz #6 70mm plastic to use on pigeons last year as they were very competitively priced.They are an excellent load,smooth shooting (even in s/sides too) ,hard hitting with perfectly formed crimps.The shot is polished and they patterned well.

Hth.

 

[Hamster]

He has done clay loads as a few years ago I had a slab or two which were simply called "Proper" and if memory serves came in both 7.5 and 8's, they were excellent if a tiny bit thumpy due I was told to being based nearasdamitt on the Sovereign load.

 

[PMG 63]

You can post as many questions as you like but you won't get a price on here.we enquired a year back for game loads and got no where.the best option is to ring him then get a price and wait for weeks for him coming to your town.sorry George but you can't run a business like that

 

[Garwood]

Always a problem for small outfit to make ,market & deliver.

 

[perazman]

As has been said. Prices will not be forthcoming. He'll ask you to ring him direct so he can enquire as to what pigeon shooting you have for him!  Various friends have discovered this.

Have a trawl through the endless pigeon watch threads that tend to go around in circles. He seems incapable of producing a set core of products with a price list to match. No doubt he could produce a bespoke order for you personally but as an all round cartridge manufacturer he has a long way to go.

I get the impression he can't compete on price as far as basic clay loads go so concentrates on game loads. 

PM.

 

[Aris]

My understanding is he can not compete with the big boys for clay loads which have a much smaller margin.  Game shells are a different story.  According to him, the lead costs the same no matter the size of shot, yet somehow the big boys charge 50-100% more for those cartridges.  This is where he can compete.

Perhaps the economics have changed now - but he is a small niche player with limited capacity.  I suspect you need economies of scale to compete for clay loads.  He (or someone) may be better off bringing in shells from the continent.

 

[Hamster]

My understanding is he can not compete with the big boys for clay loads which have a much smaller margin.  Game shells are a different story.  According to him, the lead costs the same no matter the size of shot, yet somehow the big boys charge 50-100% more for those cartridges.  This is where he can compete.

Perhaps the economics have changed now - but he is a small niche player with limited capacity.  I suspect you need economies of scale to compete for clay loads.  He (or someone) may be better off bringing in shells from the continent.

We have all said as much for years, quite how they have managed to fool game shooters for so long is beyond me. 

 

[Simbo]

At £35 a bird..............35p to bring it down, ain't gonna break the bank.

 

[perazman]

I suppose you could turn the whole thing on its head and say its just aswell game loads do have a higher margin as surely that is what enables them to decrease the margin on budget loads?

I'm certainly no fan of cartridge companies and their cartel but it is another way of looking at it.

Shoot budget clay loads at clays and budget pigeon loads at game. Let your chosen brand make their money off someone else!

I still look forward to seeing a Proper Cartridges price list. He loaded Little Devils and Smooth ABT I think they were called many years ago. Nothing wrong with either but supply dried up.

PM.

 

[propercartridges]

well chaps here i am its best to ring me as i do like a look around the country and love pigeon shooting so if i can work it while delivering  why  not  like just got back from turriff in aberdeen    when into banchory   and done a few deliverys up there put out 26000 and yes shot a few pigeons    now  my problem is how do i get my carts into your gun so you can go to your gunshop and get them from him if you like them   then gunshop says i have plenty big brands  and dont want any more    now today have just had a lad from cambridge go with45000 in a merc van    they left me at 200 per thousand    and copper shot at 230    made with  cheddite cases and cx2000 primers   a s vectan powder     b and p wad  and shot from locatelli tower dropped shot   now tell me if theres any componet better and i will try to buy it   thats all  for now i have 2 more victims at the door   phone is best   cheers  george 07714 323 909

 

[Hamster]

:lol: :lol:  Well that's a start anyway. 

I hope you're talking about game/pigeon loads there but I'll talk to you on the phone tomorrow and see if we're on the same wavelength. 

 

[propercartridges]

This is aimed at George at the above company, I did consider pm'ing him but came to the conclusion that both he and many others here and elsewhere could benefit from the potential outcome. I would respectfully ask people to please kindly refrain from posting superfluous info or gems such as recoil is subjective or get your gun fit sorted etc, as the aim is to see whether George can even help or compete with other manufacturers.

I may be wrong but my take is that the main problem for Proper Cartridges has always been one of distribution and breaking the hold of the big boys who in some cases even refuse to allow certain dealers from supplying their shells. The boom in home shopping in the past decade as we have all witnessed has meant that delivery of even cheaper items is no longer really a problem and delivery charges can be kept to very reasonable levels, with this in mind I would like to ask :

Can you please give me a price for loading a clay cartridge in :

plastic wad with 28g size 8 (2.2mm) of hardish shot (5% ?), the same quality of shot that can be found in mid level competition shells such as Eley Superbs and Fiocchi F3 or FBlack etc, 

metal height unimportant so no need for 20mm if costs and performance can be maintained at say 12mm or even less ?

no need for 8 star crimp as long as they're well made in ordinary 6 star and generally up to the mark 

RECOIL is important, I don't like slow shells so want some speed but no need for fastest in any shape or form, again looking for mid level competition shell speeds around those mentioned already, I personally consider FBlacks to be a tad too much, the likes of Black or even White Gold are again too punchy, Eley Superb territory or even less if breaking ability is not compromised. 

Availability is important, I have always tended to stick to the same shell for as many years as possible so need to be able to muster supplies in no more than about a week from e-mail.

What price per thou and what quantity to avoid delivery charges, eg, can you do three thou runs to customers or must a group put a minimum order of 10k ? 

If this gets anywhere you can call them ShootClay Socialist Comp or Hamster 8 Revolution, in time the 6.5's can be called Uprising Fitasc.

All the best and look forward to hearing from you. 

ok what do you shoot or favour if money was no problem  you see land rover do not make a car they only get the bits and pieces and bolt it together at there factory    we cart makers do the same   now i have 4 machines  1at 12000 per hour 2 at 2400 per hour and 1 at 2000 per hour   but i hate loading fibre becouse of the balistic results   so where i can i pick and choose my markets   the super rapida plays with plastic   for delivery if i pass you will drop them in   or buy 3000 and i give you free post on your door  next day but we dispatch mon tues wed thurs only  as we do not like the carts lying around on week ends     so please tell me if you can how  you would like a cart  built   and i see wot i can do preference given to lads with a bit of pigeon shooting chucked in    ha   ha  cheers  george

:lol: :lol:  Well that's a start anyway. 

I hope you're talking about game/pigeon loads there but I'll talk to you on the phone tomorrow and see if we're on the same wavelength. 

no they were clay carts   on todays dispatch             game was up in aberdeen     cheers  george

 

[Worcs]

45,000 at £200 a thou?  I don't know if it's just me but I'd be looking for a lot better price at that quantity of clay loads

 

[Hamster]

ok what do you shoot or favour if money was no problem  you see land rover do not make a car they only get the bits and pieces and bolt it together at there factory    we cart makers do the same   now i have 4 machines  1at 12000 per hour 2 at 2400 per hour and 1 at 2000 per hour   but i hate loading fibre becouse of the balistic results   so where i can i pick and choose my markets   the super rapida plays with plastic   for delivery if i pass you will drop them in   or buy 3000 and i give you free post on your door  next day but we dispatch mon tues wed thurs only  as we do not like the carts lying around on week ends     so please tell me if you can how  you would like a cart  built   and i see wot i can do preference given to lads with a bit of pigeon shooting chucked in    ha   ha  cheers  george

no they were clay carts   on todays dispatch             game was up in aberdeen     cheers  george

Hi George,

This is the preferred spec as per original post : 

Can you please give me a price for loading a clay cartridge in :

plastic wad with 28g size 8 (2.2mm) of hardish shot (5% ?), the same quality of shot that can be found in mid level competition shells such as Eley Superbs and Fiocchi F3 or FBlack etc, 

metal height unimportant so no need for 20mm if costs and performance can be maintained at say 12mm or even less ?

no need for 8 star crimp as long as they're well made in ordinary 6 star and generally up to the mark 

RECOIL is important, I don't like slow shells so want some speed but no need for fastest in any shape or form, again looking for mid level competition shell speeds around those mentioned already, I personally consider FBlacks to be a tad too much, the likes of Black or even White Gold are again too punchy, Eley Superb territory or even less if breaking ability is not compromised. 

==============================

Do you have an existing plastic wad clay load available in 8's ? What is the spec on it please, i.e, shot hardness and recoil characteristics, looking for sensible stuff not the likes of Sovereign or Black Gold. 

I know you're competitive on game shells but if I'm honest I don't think £200 is the right money for clays unless they're every bit as good as a Fiocchi FBlack or Eley Superb in which case I would use them. 

Scott from Greenfields of Canterbury has tried to contact you before, can you call them and see if you can agree on dropping a trade type order off ? 

 

[Bebo]

If the price is competitive then I'm sure I can get together an order for 10,000 in East Sussex, not a million miles away from where Hamster is in Kent.