Safety

[Salopian]

Just a note to ask us all to be safety conscious please.

Loaded for an elderly gentleman yesterday who insisted on sitting on his 'gripstick' with his gun across his lap loaded   ! ! ! ! !

It never occurred to him that he could have seriously injured the people on the adjoining pegs.

Also resting the loaded gun on his toe whilst waiting ! ! ! 

I mentioned it a couple of times , but "it is okay the safety catch is on".

Rather than being dismissed for insolence I took the guns off him and proceeded to 'fuss over them ' until the drives got going.

Needless to say he missed numerous birds because of irritatingly clicking the safety catch on and off and between barrels.

Not a good day , but we killed no one .

Is it acceptable to say " Keep your muzzles up or I'm f***ing off " ? ?

 

[Darkside]

Yes.

 

[Sian]

Yes without hesitation.

 

[Hamster]

This sort of thing can prove difficult especially with ole boys who you don't want to offend, I think you did as best as you could but will be worth making the owner/organiser aware and perhaps even let them know you'll not be loading for him again either way. 

In similar situations whilst clay shooting you can either walk away, have a chat (with different consequences) or stick real close like Daniel Craig and pounce when it gets really unsafe.

 

[Rupert]

Nothing is out of bounds regarding safety

 

[Jonny English]

In an ideal world yes, you should be able to say or do whatever is necessary to be safe. But in the real world this person is a paying guest at a commercial shoot, and you need to approach matters in a diplomatic and sensitive way. The gun may be a close friend of the shoot owner or a person who spends a lot of money at that shoot, these matters aren't easy to approach when a lot is at stake. You can't go risking the safety of others but you have to find a sensitive way of approaching the matter or leave in the hands of the shoot captain to deal with. I think you took the right approach.

 

[Ian Lawrence]

It's always the Senior Generation who are "allowed" to get away with this sort of thing.

If it were a younger person, would you have acted differently? I expect you would, but why the difference?

A danger is a danger, no matter how it is portrayed. Peter, you are long enough in the tooth to know how and when to act tactfully, and I'm sure you did in this situation. :smile:

I have no tact, so I would have administered a 12 gauge supository to the Gentleman concerned, but that's just my way.

 

[Salopian]

Yes , we didn't have an accident .

I did handle the situation very diplomatically, I was diplomacy personified , which for me is little short of a miracle.

My Gentleman did say he couldn't remember shooting so badly on one drive, until I reminded him he had shot worse on the drive before , and the one before that :lol: .

My point in posting this is to remind all of us that now the season is getting into its swing , we must all be vigilant and safe.

 

[Sian]

I wouldn't be rude as in bad language but diplomacy or skirting round an issue or being so tactful he doesn't have a clue what he has done wrong doesn't actually do anyone any good and just passes the danger on to the next game shoot he attends where he might not be as lucky as to have a Salopian there to keep him and others safe.  I think it also unwise to excuse his behaviour lest you upset the host or whatever, no-one is above acting in a safe manner.

 

[chippy]

This is one of the reasons I do not go game shooting , the other is cost and another is that I cannot hit them. 

 

[westley]

I would add that this behaviour is fairly commonplace on most game shoots and is 1 reason for my virtually sticking to clays. I once witnessed not 1, but 3 elderley gentlemen sitting on shooting sticks and holding their guns in the same manner. One was admiring what was, a very nice stock, which he kept wiping with the palm of his right hand, whilst holding the forend with his left hand, his gun pointing straight down the line of 5 other guns. Barrels being plugged as they reach down into the cartridge bag,  guns removed from slips closed and then waved around whilst looking for somewhere to keep the slip out of the mud, in fact general very poor muzzle awareness. I like to believe that I am a little more subtle and merely suggest that "Sir bring the Vaseline out after lunch, if Sir's gun handling does not improve" . I think that maybe years of shooting without any hearing defence has made many a Gun deaf, especially when gun handling advice is proffered. I note too,  that if on any rare occasion there is an incident at the Clay Ground, it is usually a Game shooter on a day out !  I am a self taught Game shooter, turned Clay shooter but I have to admit, it was the Clay Ground where I learned my gun safety.

 

[Iggy]

Good post Peter, I agree wholeheartedly and we all have a duty to keep our sport safe. 

 

[Finners]

I wouldn't be rude as in bad language but diplomacy or skirting round an issue or being so tactful he doesn't have a clue what he has done wrong doesn't actually do anyone any good and just passes the danger on to the next game shoot he attends where he might not be as lucky as to have a Salopian there to keep him and others safe.  I think it also unwise to excuse his behaviour lest you upset the host or whatever, no-one is above acting in a safe manner.

Spot on. 

 

[Les53]

I may not have been very tactful I'm afraid! Safety cannot be set aside because of age!! In fact it is the older shooters who should set an example to the younger ones. The fact that the guy was a paying customer is neither here nor there, safety must come first......end of! Rant over.....I will get back in my box now.......

 

[Les]

Jonny English took the words right out of my keyboard.  Any breaches of safety must be dealt with as diplomatically as possible. Sometimes it's easier than others, but regardless of the gun, you need to make sure that yourself and everybody else gets home safely and in one piece. If that means stepping on a few toes, then so be it, but you seemed to handle the situation very well.

 

[Finners]

Jonny English took the words right out of my keyboard.  Any breaches of safety must be dealt with as diplomatically as possible. Sometimes it's easier than others, but regardless of the gun, you need to make sure that yourself and everybody else gets home safely and in one piece. If that means stepping on a few toes, then so be it, but you seemed to handle the situation very well.

Odd, the way  I read JE, he seemed more concerned with the financial relationship of the "old 'un" to the shoot organisers and how offending him might affect the feel of the day. Whilst I get and understand that, to my mind safety is by far the the bigger of the two issues. And yes, I have had to speak to older men about unacceptable gun safety. I would always do this in a polite, discreet but positive way. As the song says "It 'aint what you do it's the way that you do it"

 

[Jonny English]

Odd, the way  I read JE, he seemed more concerned with the financial relationship of the "old 'un" to the shoot organisers and how offending him might affect the feel of the day. Whislt I get and understand that, to my mind safety is the bigger of the two issues. And yes, I have had to speak to older men about unacceptable gun safety. I would always do this in a polite, discreet but positive way. As the song says "It 'aint what you do it's the way that you do it"

I wasn't concerned about the financial side of the matter, but as a person who has to manage people on a daily basis I know that there are ways and means of dealing with people in order to get your desired response. Telling people that your going to do whatever with there gun if they don't buck up is not a responsible way to approach the matter as some would suggest. A polite request away from everyone else is always a good way to start, should that fall on deaf ears then it's the captains job to take it further.

 

[Ian Lawrence]

Whatever happened to telling somebody something straight and like it is? For goodness sake, some of you need to grow a back-bone!

This pussyfooting around will only prolong the inevitable.

Softly, softly, nicey, nicey only falls on deaf ears I'm afraid. (In my experience of course). Perhaps it's different in your world?

Be safe, act safe and ensure others are safe. there's no excuse that will repay for an accident. Prevention is so much better than cure.  :wink:

 

[Sian]

I too manage people on a daily basis and I am good at it but whilst I can dress up what I want to say, the point is always very clear and not open it interpretation and that is really what I want to say in regard to this sort of  scenario.    Although teaching an old dog new tricks and getting him to realise he is wrong in his behaviour, probably a behaviour he has always exhibited and never been challenged on would probably take more than a gentle word from his loader.