Bebo
Well-known member
The perpetrator of the most recent incident was named Adrian and he was born in Kent.
Should all police be armed.
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Precisely, we continue to treat the effect and not the cause. Did we have so much Islamic terrorism pre US led invasions of the ME ? You reap what you sow as the saying goes and I don't say so glibly because it has affected me personally in far more negative ways that it ever hopefully would most of us.
He was also 52, and from Kent - so is Nigel Farage.
That's enough of a trend for me, I'm starting the 'ban 52-year-olds from Kent' campaign.
Not only that but there are also numerous examples of dare I say it, white Christian terrorism in our world which are routinely dismissed as mere crime. Some of it is dressed as Freedom and Democracy in fact .
As an old person I remember a time when police officers spent most of their time out in public and operated from buildings called (for the benefit of those under 40) Police Stations. Every town and city district had a police station and many villages had a police house where the local 'Bobby' lived. Policing was largely pro-active, but if an incident occurred, reponse times were usually very quick.
Nowadays Glos police are based in a fairly nondescript building on a trading estate, miles away from any towns, from where they function as a sort of paramilitary response force, racing around the county when called upon, sirens screaming, even for a cat stuck up a tree. Someone remarked on Saturday afternoon recently that it was like living in a war zone - and I'm talking about Stroud here, not some inner city sink estate riddled with drug dealers and knife crime. Here's a question: When was the last time you saw a uniformed police officer who wasn't in a vehicle or working at an event of some kind.
Despite the fact that there are roughly twice as many officers as 50 years ago and 10 times as many non-uniformed staff, the police are so bogged down with beaurocracy, paperwork, fear of making mistakes, political correctness and criticism from both the press and public that they can't (or won't) do the job the public wants them to do.
I'd like to see more visibility from the police, more local 'Bobbies' who know the bad lads around the area rather than more gung ho ARU types. They will never resolve the problems with people like Adrian by simply responding to an attack that's already started, guns or no guns.
So no, I don't think they should all be armed but I do think they should be much more visible.
Nowadays Glos police are based in a fairly nondescript building on a trading estate, miles away from any towns, from where they function as a sort of paramilitary response force, racing around the county when called upon, sirens screaming, even for a cat stuck up a tree. Someone remarked on Saturday afternoon recently that it was like living in a war zone - and I'm talking about Stroud here, not some inner city sink estate riddled with drug dealers and knife crime. Here's a question: When was the last time you saw a uniformed police officer who wasn't in a vehicle or working at an event of some kind.
Despite the fact that there are roughly twice as many officers as 50 years ago and 10 times as many non-uniformed staff, the police are so bogged down with beaurocracy, paperwork, fear of making mistakes, political correctness and criticism from both the press and public that they can't (or won't) do the job the public wants them to do.
I'd like to see more visibility from the police, more local 'Bobbies' who know the bad lads around the area rather than more gung ho ARU types. They will never resolve the problems with people like Adrian by simply responding to an attack that's already started, guns or no guns.
So no, I don't think they should all be armed but I do think they should be much more visible.
schmokinn
Well-known member
Religion is a cancer on our society,it has never done any real good though many times has taken the limelight away from the people that have saying it was in there name.
It creates extremism because people are convinced they are doing it in the name of something that does not exist,you only have to look at the way the Roman Catholic church rewrote the greatest fiction ever written and called it the New Testament whilst torturing and killing anybody that did not agree.
Remove religion and remove 90% of terrorism.
Worst of all it is nothing new and nobody has learned from history!
It creates extremism because people are convinced they are doing it in the name of something that does not exist,you only have to look at the way the Roman Catholic church rewrote the greatest fiction ever written and called it the New Testament whilst torturing and killing anybody that did not agree.
Remove religion and remove 90% of terrorism.
Worst of all it is nothing new and nobody has learned from history!
I agree you don't see that many policeman walking around anymore, they are distant and unknown. Back in the day you knew your local bobby and he knew you and you didn't cross a line with him and he would be lenient when he considered it appropriate otherwise he'd be on to your parents. We don't know our police anymore, we've dehumanised them and they have been removed from our communities. Once upon a time a bobby knew his locals personally, the element of mutual respect is diminishing. The last two policeman I met was in a hospital as they took evidence from my friend's son after he had been beaten up. They had to take a dna swab with a new kit which they had not been shown how to use - I had to give them instructions on how to use it.
Bebo
Well-known member
Funny that you don't often hear about people going on a shooting spree or mowing people down with cars in the cause of Atheism.
true that!!
also you don't hear of people doing the same in the name of the tooth fairy..... no reason to not believe in her (or him) if you believe in a monotheistic god or polytheistic for that matter
ban religion in any form, it has no place in society.
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I am not religious although I was brought up as a Christian but we live in a democracy so therefore religious freedom has to be allowed. In any event if there were no religions you would still have nutters who would carry out horrible crimes in something or other's name.
PhilR
Well-known member
My late father was in the Met police joining in 1948, and often had a revolver issued to him when necessary, most notably in the hunt for Harry Roberts who killed three of his colleagues in 1966. This was before the set up of active firearms units.
As an ex WW2 soldier he was well used to handling and using firearms in shoot to kill situations, unlike the younger new recruits.
He was against the standard issue of firearms to beat bobbies, preferring the standard issue whistle and truncheon.
He's been dead for 36 years now and I often wonder what he'd make of the demands being made of the current police service and whether he'd have changed his views.
As an ex WW2 soldier he was well used to handling and using firearms in shoot to kill situations, unlike the younger new recruits.
He was against the standard issue of firearms to beat bobbies, preferring the standard issue whistle and truncheon.
He's been dead for 36 years now and I often wonder what he'd make of the demands being made of the current police service and whether he'd have changed his views.
ips
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brilliant post ?
I am a confirmed pragmatic agnostic, verging on apathetic agnostic but it doesn't bother me one bit what other folk believe in as long as they don't try to "convert" others to there theories.
i tend to agree, at least in any formal way such as catholicism. Believe what you want but dont hark on about it when it is in reality merely a theory either you made up or you are following the theories of others.
I see no need for any belief other than reality
ips
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yes and your soul will be saved as a direct result of your donation.....apparently.
incidentally I have been known to give to the salvation army purely because they actually get on the front line (so to speak) and help those folk that all the gods have let down. People of all ages and gender who for reasons many of us cannot even imagine end up living on the streets whilst warm church halls remain unused and imigrants are housed. Don't even get me started on single parents playing the benefit game ?
sorry slight thread drift
incidentally I have been known to give to the salvation army purely because they actually get on the front line (so to speak) and help those folk that all the gods have let down. People of all ages and gender who for reasons many of us cannot even imagine end up living on the streets whilst warm church halls remain unused and imigrants are housed. Don't even get me started on single parents playing the benefit game ?
sorry slight thread drift
Bebo
Well-known member
They are one of the worst - homophobic, misogynistic - I would be very sceptical of giving them ANY money ever. See here for a catalogue of their anti LGBT activities.
You win the internet today. well done!
I'm not particularly religious, but like most people (I'm guessing) I was given the usual religious upbringing, of a sort. But never get carried away with the idea that if you removed religion there would be no nutters around ready to die for some obscure cause. There'll always be causes people will commit acts of terror for and lots of them will have no connection with religion. Baader Meinhof, the Bolshevik Revolution etc. spring to mind. In the latter case millions died. But, as wiser people than me have observed before, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter - and there's the difficulty.
As for arming police, I live in Somerset and so I'd have to say what police? Can't remember the last time I saw one, even in a car. They're asked to do a thankless task but they have one hand tied behind their backs and the other hand is wielding a pen, filling out endless forms. But no, I don't think they should be routinely armed. As someone has said, above, it takes special training to be able to kill someone, in the call of duty, on demand. Our police, thankfully, are trained to protect so let's just leave weapons to those specially trained.
Very topical in light of yesterday's funeral!
Basically we're lucky that that the majority of these attackers are pretty stupid and use crude methods against obvious targets. We - and especially the police - wouldn't have a hope of stopping them from causing large scale casualties and damage if they ever got a few smart people together to do some thinking and planning.
Strange that reading these comments, so many are in favour of arming our Police Officers as general practice. I recall only a couple of months ago, after armed Officers 'got it wrong,' reading on another shooting related Forum, as to how Police Officers should NOT be armed. Most of these comments are from armchair 'Experts' whose total experience of carrying a firearm on Britains (or anywhere else) Streets, does not go beyond an X Box ! I have read recently that Police Forces are struggling to get VOLUNTEERS to become Firearms Officers. This is mainly due to a lack of support for any Officer who, rightly or wrongly, has occasion to discharge their firearm. It MUST be remembered that any armed Officer has seconds to make the decision to shoot or not and MOST of the time, at night or in poor lighting conditions. You are told, during 'Training' that nobody can 'order' you to pull the trigger. That is a YOURS and YOURS alone decision and you have to be able to JUSTIFY your actions afterwards. It would have been an immediate suspension from ANY duties, until after any Court proceedings (and these can take years). and no contact with any colleagues (apart from interviewing Senior Ranks) whatsoever. I have seen the results of some of these 'suspensions' and it has taken years off the lives of those suspended, never knowing which way things are going to go. This is how it used to be and I do not see that it will have changed for the better, in fact probably now it is far worse, with so much CCTV and mobile phone cameras catching every move. Cameras DO lie, depending on the angles involved ! I carried a firearm on Britains Streets during a time when the IRA were still very active on the mainland, but having witnessed the treatment of any Officer that had occasion to use one, I returned my 'Pink' card. (Authorisation to carry firearms) I did not wish to be standing on the wrong side of the dock in a Crown Court. After all, I am constantly reading about negligent usage of Tasers and how those nasty Police Officers are too quick to resort to their use. I am now awaiting the outcries of some of the Legal Profession, regarding the lethal shooting of someone who was 'only' armed with a knife and WHY was he not tasered ? It will come. We are still trying to prosecute Soldiers who had occasion to use their guns whilst in Northern Ireland !
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I'd not give them that much credit. What they do have is a lack of inhibition and seemingly low survival instincts.
Having or not having an armed police is a simplistic solution, either way, to an extremely complex problem exacerbated by a multitude of factors. Blaming the US for a situation in the MidEast that France and GB created 100yrs ago is pretty simplistic as well. What has surfaced has been fermenting for rather more than a single decade. JIC you may not be aware of that. The problems will not be solved in any lifetime soon as the political will of the elected and the naivete of the electorate will be incapable of accepting any resolution capable of success. That is to say, I don't see any widespread reaping being done by those who have received the sowing. Know what I mean?
You may want to tread lightly on any similarity to Ireland where religion was the excuse the GOVERNMENT used.
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