Steel shot debate.

[k80ben]

Tonight on my Instagram Benhusthwaitesubscribe At 7pm we will have world renowned shooter frank hasekamp to talk steel shells. 
 

Frank has shot more steel shells than anyone at both clay and game so will have first hand knowledge of performance and results. 
 

you may be surprised to hear what choke he uses too 

 

[jonz]

Great to hear this guy talk about steel shot, for both clays and wildfowl. 
It certainly opened my eyes on the ability of steel

 

[k80ben]

A class fella another tonight. The owner of dornsberg that only shoots steel and bio wad.. so we’re going a stage further 

 

[jwpzx9r]

Great to hear this guy talk about steel shot, for both clays and wildfowl. 
It certainly opened my eyes on the ability of steel

Did he say anything about steel shot and the fact that a great number of shotguns are not proofed for the use of steel shot shells?

 

[k80ben]

Yes sir and he also shoots full choke as do all his friends ! 

 

[AW13]

Yes sir and he also shoots full choke as do all his friends ! 

Confused, I thought steel should be shot with a 1/2 or less ?

 

[jonz]

Confused, I thought steel should be shot with a 1/2 or less ?

Like most people in the UK I thought the same, but we heard first hand from these guys on the continent that they use 3/4 without any problems and have been doing this for some years so I guess it’s the cartridge manufacturers being cautious or perhaps they don’t want to change to lead yet? 

 

[AW13]

So a fixed choke Miroku 1/2 & 3/4 would be OK according to the above review! 

If Ben reads this please can you copy in a link for the review, thanks

 

[k80ben]

As I said mate it was only there for 24 hours. There was another lst night if u head to my Instagram Benhusthwaitesubscribe u have a couple hours left to view 

 

[Socrates]

I'm late to the party, and it seems that I missed some very relevant information. 

Can anyone give a summary? I'm trying to make sense of steel ballistics in terms of shot size and choke selection for sporting clays.

The sporting clay shooters on the Dutch forum I'm on all seem to prefer tighter chokes with No 7 steel shot for sporting, but I don't understand why. I can't figure out if it's down to personal preference and the related confidence it gives, or  if there are some good scientific reasons for it.

Do the physical properties of steel such as density and malleability drastically change the narrative when it comes to choke selection and down range kinetic energy? 

Example: I want to shoot 1/2 & 1/2, based primarily on Ben's one YouTube video on the subject, and the subsequent confirmation bias in a bunch of internet forum post. 

 I am reasonably sure that the opinions on this specific choke selection were drawn from experience shooting lead. Since I will be shooting steel, is it as straightforward as buying two 1/4 chokes to get the same downrange performance as I would have with lead through 1/2 constriction chokes? 

It's all terribly confusing, and it would have been great to hear a top rated Dutch shooter talk about these things. 

 

[bostonmick]

How many of our top shooters use exclusively steel.and on which disciplines.also any guess as to how long it would be before a fibre/degradable wad would come at a sensible price. I have seen two brands with these but come at almost £1000 per thousand. Because after pleasing the anti lead mob we would then have to bow to the anti plastic ones 

 

[Cosmicblue]

Having tried a 250 slab of 100% bio degradable Jocker fibre wad (shot cup) carts a month or so back and found them to be excellent, I've now bought a further 1000 (£215) from Claverdon cartridges there is also a 21g steel version to try. 

 

[Salopian]

Bare in mind that there are considerably more steel pellets in a 28gram load than in a Lead load , steel pellets do not deform when navigating a choke constriction so therefore are more round and more aerodynamic I would have thought 3/8 or 1/2 choke is adequate for most Sporting Targets .

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I
The sporting clay shooters on the Dutch forum I'm on...

Interesting. Fellow Dutchman here- what forum would that be if I may ask? Personally I shoot M and IM for sporting (the latter not being officially rated for steel, but no adverse effects or any deformity so far). I'm certainly not top-rated however  

 

[Socrates]

Interesting. Fellow Dutchman here- what forum would that be if I may ask? Personally I shoot M and IM for sporting (the latter not being officially rated for steel, but no adverse effects or any deformity so far). I'm certainly not top-rated however  

Hi Luke

vuurwapens.net

You're not helping! I'm still confused. 

You shoot Modified which seems to be quite popular with a lot of people that shoot mostly lead. You shoot the same constriction, but with steel you get the lead equivalent of full. I would have expected you to shoot I/C. Is there a specific reason that you prefer such a tight constriction over I/C?

I came to the conclusion to order steel ammo, and extra I/C and Modified factory chokes and figure it out for myself. 

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Hi Luke

vuurwapens.net

You're not helping! I'm still confused. 

You shoot Modified which seems to be quite popular with a lot of people that shoot mostly lead. You shoot the same constriction, but with steel you get the lead equivalent of full. I would have expected you to shoot I/C. Is there a specific reason that you prefer such a tight constriction over I/C?

I came to the conclusion to order steel ammo, and extra I/C and Modified factory chokes and figure it out for myself. 

I browse same occasionally, mostly for the classifieds. Hadn't noticed a clay-shooting section to be honest 

Personally I don't have any experience shooting lead, but I doubt that steel through my M choke throws a "full choke equivalent"  as compared to shooting lead.*  I do have a few boxes of lead cartridges, but nowhere to compare on a patterning plate. If I ever shoot in the UK I'd be very happy to test this. 

If my chokes are too tight for sporting, I suppose I'm getting extra practice at precisely shooting where the clay will be. I can sure use extra practice yet now I have a handy excuse other than my skillset. 

* By this reasoning, skeet shooters using lead would be playing a far easier game than shooters using steel cartridges. SK/SK for lead,  blunderbuss for steel cartridges?     



Given that Beretta is a European manufacturer, I imagine the use of steel cartridges should be par for their course(s) as well, but I could be wrong. Their constriction chart doesn't differentiate. Curious as to whether it is steel or lead based... 

 

[JoostB]

Interesting. Fellow Dutchman here- what forum would that be if I may ask? 

I wondered the same thing

 

[timps]

Given that Beretta is a European manufacturer, I imagine the use of steel cartridges should be par for their course(s) as well, but I could be wrong. Their constriction chart doesn't differentiate. Curious as to whether it is steel or lead based... 

This link from the UK importer GMK explains it better 

https://www.gmk.co.uk/pdf/choke-constriction-chart.pdf

As the notes state the chart is what a choke should give with common loads not that it will give that with every cartridge including different lead ones.

"There are many factors that determine how each choke will pattern. The measured internal diameter is only one factor, we supply these charts for a general comparison use only. It is always best to pattern your firearm, with the choke and the type and brand of shot shell you will actually use in order to determine the optimal combination. These measurements are supplied only as a guide. It is not the actual internal dimension that is important, but how well the choke patterns for your particular needs."

"Clay target loads of 1 1/8th ounce / 32gr with higher % of antimonium #7 1/2 or #8 lead shot, often pattern tighter than 1 1/8th ounce / 32gr "field" loads of same number but with softer lead shot. Steel and Tungsten shot typically patterns tighter than lead shot. In both cases this is because the steel or tungsten is harder and deforms less, or not at all, than the lead during the time the shot-column travels inside the barrel."

So it is dependent on your cartridge but the harder shot should pattern tighter, how much tighter with your set up can only be found out by patterning. Briley state that their Mod choke is equivalent to full using steel https://www.briley.com/c-460-lead-to-steel-shot-conversion.aspx but this also has to be a generalisation and over simplification as all cartridges pattern different .

If you are happy with what you are using then I wouldn't worry about it. 

 

[westley]

I think that the 1/2 choke maximum in the UK was brought about by the UK Proof Houses and not by cartridge Manufacturers.