Think your Sunday is going badly? Look at my barrel..

[Paul120]

That's one hell of a dirty choke. Did it look anything like that when you removed it to check the damage after the failure in the other barrel? or was clean as in it had non of the brown goo that it is covered with now. I don't mean a bit of soot as they all get a bit of that unless Invector DS. 

Did you apply grease? If so how much? Half a bucket full? 

I thought teague chokes were Stainless steel so it it's rust where did it come from? The pictures of the inside of the barrel look pretty clean considering that amount of muck. 

 

[jwpzx9r]

For the avoidance of doubt I think that most companies would probably do what Teague have and state that there are many ways in which this type of malfunction could happen. I would say that from the customers angle a confidential and without prejudice award of some sort from Teague may probably have been appropriate . The real problem here is that to prove with a degree of certainty what happened here would cost a fortune. Imagine if this was a component from a crashed aircraft no avenue of fault detection would be left un-investigated and a near certain cause would be found this malfunction. This is a set of shotgun barrels they know that these are not going to undergo forensic testing of any degree it is just to expensive. They have taken a few photographs and given an opinion... it means absolutely nothing... literally anybody could have given the opinion they have here.

 

[Mike]

That's one hell of a dirty choke. Did it look anything like that when you removed it to check the damage after the failure in the other barrel? or was clean as in it had non of the brown goo that it is covered with now. I don't mean a bit of soot as they all get a bit of that unless Invector DS. 

Did you apply grease? If so how much? Half a bucket full? 

I thought teague chokes were Stainless steel so it it's rust where did it come from? The pictures of the inside of the barrel look pretty clean considering that amount of muck. 

My thoughts too, that choke looks odd to me.

 

[tiptop]

I really think people need to get this into perspective here. It's not the first time, and won't be the last time a choke has blown. Whether it be a Teague choke or a manufacturers choke. Some of the comments on here, some people need to get a grip.

Did you apply grease? If so how much? Half a bucket full? 

I thought teague chokes were Stainless steel so it it's rust where did it come from? The pictures of the inside of the barrel look pretty clean considering that amount of muck. 

They are stainless steal, the only gun I have ever had rust issues in the barrels, even after cleaning and oiling is with a Mircuckoo.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I really think people need to get this into perspective here. It's not the first time, and won't be the last time a choke has blown. Whether it be a Teague choke or a manufacturers choke. Some of the comments on here, some people need to get a grip.

Elucidate please.

 

[tiptop]

Elucidate please.

People now only going to use manufactures chokes, after using Teagues with no issues. What's in their thinking? Manufacturer chokes do blow as well.  And 99.9% of the time I bet it is operator error. :frantics:

 

[Salopian]

It will be very interesting to see the photographs , especially the one showing the area where the choke 'bottoms' into the bore. I would be interested to see the interface between choke lead and bore lead into the choke . Could a wad have caught on the edge of the choke tube ?  

It will be very interesting to see the photographs , especially the one showing the area where the choke 'bottoms' into the bore. I would be interested to see the interface between choke lead and bore lead into the choke . Could a wad have caught on the edge of the choke tube ?  

Something really does not stack up in those photographs ? I have never ,ever , seen a choke so dirty and contaminated, yet you say it was cleaned and installed the day before and only a relatively few shots passed through it???????

 

[jwpzx9r]

Agreed... but that does not exonerate Teague . Teague have not said anything concrete BUT as I have said before they know it would cost a fortune to have the work done that could point a finger at them and they know that is not going to happen.

Totally nothing to do with this incident but if this had been an important component in a major investigation they would have to sit and wait to find out if their part was shonky because it would be ultimately proved one way or the other.

Could a wad have caught on the edge of the choke tube ?  

I am no engineer but it defo looks that way. The thing is that these photographs are of poor quality but you can clearly see where the two meet.

I would like to know who wrote that report and what interests me is that the affected choke is in situ they have not removed it that to me is significant. It could be for many reasons firstly they do not own the gun but maybe because they do not want to destroy something. The other thing is they have removed the other choke... why it is inconsequential and can prove nothing at all about the damaged one? 

 

[Salopian]

For those of you worried about using alternative chokes to OE supplied or about the strength and integrity of the installation of thinwall chokes by Teague , Briley , or any other manufacturer /supplier  i.e . Muller , Comp n Choke etc .,  may be give this some thought please .

Probably the highest pressures that a barrel is subjected to occurs approximately 9" forward of the breech face , then pressure will then dissipate as it travels towards the muzzle (choke area) UNLESS OF COURSE IT MEETS AN OBSTRUCTION .

My  Boss has barrel wall thicknesses of 0.025" inch and has come to no harm in 120 years of use. 

 

[b348xyx]

(I was there when Ant tightened the chokes before shooting and when it happened so first hand see what happened... so I know that they would not have been loose)

My thoughts on this.. putting away all the blame on both sides.

i was thinking even if Teague said something like "we believe its not our fault (see evidence provided) but if you pay for the replacement barrels and have a gunsmith fit them, send the gun to us and we will re Teague the chokes for free as gesture of good" something like that would made Teague look really good as they wouldn't have taken liability and yet showed they have gone above and beyond to help incase there was any doubts they could have been blamed.

and realistically the Independent report most likely would have cost more then just offering to re Teague a replacement gun for free.. cost to them would have been pretty low and keep there reputation on top and gave others confidence that they would stand behind there product if there was any doubt what so ever.

Again this is just my own personal view.

 

[Westward]

I really think people need to get this into perspective here. It's not the first time, and won't be the last time a choke has blown. Whether it be a Teague choke or a manufacturers choke. Some of the comments on here, some people need to get a grip.

They are stainless steal, the only gun I have ever had rust issues in the barrels, even after cleaning and oiling is with a Mircuckoo.

Yep.

Steve Nutbeam used to have a collection of blown out chokes found around the ground in the Longridge clubhouse. 

As for this:

View attachment 8416

It doesn't look anything like carbon from gas blowby because it isn't black and it isn't baked on. It has to be rust pulled out of the barrels when the choke was unscrewed. How the barrels got water ingress is just part of the mystery but it doesn't sound like it's Ant's fault. Maybe one of the expert's tests involved wetting the choke and it was put back whilst still wet. 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

Yep.

Steve Nutbeam used to have a collection of blown out chokes found around the ground in the Longridge clubhouse. 

As for this:

View attachment 8416

It doesn't look anything like carbon from gas blowby because it isn't black and it isn't baked on. It has to be rust pulled out of the barrels when the choke was unscrewed. How the barrels got water ingress is just part of the mystery but it doesn't sound like it's Ant's fault. Maybe one of the expert's tests involved wetting the choke and it was put back whilst still wet. 

collection of blown out chokes ?   wow that's shocking  and worrying   !! 

 

[antse7en]

That's one hell of a dirty choke. Did it look anything like that when you removed it to check the damage after the failure in the other barrel? or was clean as in it had non of the brown goo that it is covered with now. I don't mean a bit of soot as they all get a bit of that unless Invector DS. 

Did you apply grease? If so how much? Half a bucket full? 

I thought teague chokes were Stainless steel so it it's rust where did it come from? The pictures of the inside of the barrel look pretty clean considering that amount of muck. 

No... hence my suspicion. Absolutely nothing like that nor has a choke of mine ever been. The choke went in the night prior with probably quarter pea size blue Teague grease.

And as you say the relative cleanliness of the barrel doesn’t correlate either.

Edit - I wonder if I should ask to have the other (damaged) choke removed and recorded on video. Wish I’d recorded the cleanliness of the choke before shipping.

I did grab images and a video and as I say the exposed knurling didn’t look dirty like in the report either.. will upload here.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Steve Nutbeam used to have a collection of blown out chokes found around the ground in the Longridge clubhouse. 

Yes these will have been chokes that have not been properly tightened ... the exact opposite of this case where the choke was not blown out !

 

[antse7en]

Video taken immediately prior to shipping - uploading for the purpose of proving even the knurling was clean. Compare with the report images. Not impressed unless I’m imagining that? 

View attachment IMG_1307.MOV

 

[Guest]

So my understanding so far is that the gun was multi choked over a year ago and having been so would of had to of been reproofed by a proof house to pass safety requirements.

How many shots have been put through the gun since then!?

The choke removed from the other barrel looks like its covered in a rusty gunk from corrosion of the barrel and has not been cleaned in a long time.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Video taken immediately prior to shipping - uploading for the purpose of proving even the knurling was clean. Compare with the report images. Not impressed unless I’m imagining that? 

View attachment 8419

View attachment 8420

I cannot watch your video I am afraid just have to take your word

 

[tiptop]

Video taken immediately prior to shipping - uploading for the purpose of proving even the knurling was clean. Compare with the report images. Not impressed unless I’m imagining that? 

View attachment 8419

View attachment 8420

What are we looking at here? Those threads appear to me to be cover in rust residue, was this before it was shipped? I take it you were shooting full and full.

 

[MartynB]

Question Ant . In whose opinion are those the likely causes ? That is who is the independent expert or organisation  whose competence  is in these matters . The interesting thing to me is that if I’d have been at work looking at a catastrophic failure of plant and equipment the first call would have been to check the failed components against manufacturing specification  . There seems to be no objective assessment just subjective theorisation. 

I’d also be interested in the proof side of things . I have 7 chokes with my conversion and I’ve a few I’ve never used  ? Does the full set of chokes accompany the gun to the proof house ?  I don’t recall seeing a proof mark on my chokes.  Does every choke get tested in BOTH barrels ? 

Don’t beat yourself up , you know you’ve done everything right .  Although I’ve loads of Teagues for my converted 12 and 20 Mirokus , the only ones I ever find myself using are 3/8 and 5/8 so perhaps that’s the way to go with a fixed choke ? 
 

 

[antse7en]

What are we looking at here? Those threads appear to me to be cover in rust residue, was this before it was shipped? I take it you were shooting full and full.

No... the image is from Teague in their workshop (where they are inexplicably dirty) and the video is immediately prior to shipping. The point I was making is that the external knurling is clean in the video, and filthy in the image. How has that happened? Can only surmise it's been taken out and played with prior to that image being taken. 

Question Ant . In whose opinion are those the likely causes ? That is who is the independent expert or organisation  whose competence  is in these matters . The interesting thing to me is that if I’d have been at work looking at a catastrophic failure of plant and equipment the first call would have been to check the failed components against manufacturing specification  . There seems to be no objective assessment just subjective theorisation. 

I’d also be interested in the proof side of things . I have 7 chokes with my conversion and I’ve a few I’ve never used  ? Does the full set of chokes accompany the gun to the proof house ?  I don’t recall seeing a proof mark on my chokes.  Does every choke get tested in BOTH barrels ? 

Don’t beat yourself up , you know you’ve done everything right .  Although I’ve loads of Teagues for my converted 12 and 20 Mirokus , the only ones I ever find myself using are 3/8 and 5/8 so perhaps that’s the way to go with a fixed choke ? 
 

Agree with all of that bud. The most unusual thing to me however is the fact the damaged choke hasn't been removed and referenced in the report - the first thing I would have expected.

I feel there's not too much more for me to add in terms of the process thus far. I'll keep this thread alive with any updates on the insurance and replacement for those who may be curious - and anything else remotely interesting which may happen! 

Thanks all for the interest as always - if nothing else this has provided us with a fairly engaging thread!