What Shooting Method ?

[timps]

I was taught pull away and maintained lead although the guy was a CPSA instructor it wasn’t paid lessons just a brew and a bacon butty and a bit of advice type thing.

Now I used a combination of most methods, but I guess my go to methods are swing through and similar I guess to Will although I can sometimes insert on or just in front of the clay before pulling away to then maintain the lead.

I also use a method where the gun is in front of the clay but travelling slower than the clay, when the lead looks right I pull the trigger. I was informed this was the new proprietary diminishing lead technique which someone came up with. I found that odd seeing as I did it at a shoot years ago out of frustration because it was a tight shooting window and I was over leading  or stopping my gun when I tried not to over lead  and it worked. I just didn’t have the presence of mind to come up with a catchy name and write several books or dvd’s on it.

I genuinely don’t understand the hard focus method at all, I have tried to understand it but just don’t get it so I guess it’s not for me. 

 

[Will Hewland]

Diminishing lead has been around forever I would guess. As I say, I do it slightly, but there is one good shot I know (actually two) who does it in a horribly exaggerated style. Move way out in front, stop the gun and shoot when the gap looks right. I hate this on principle because, like fast swing through, there is a heavy reliance on timing.

 

[timps]

I think all methods and hybrid variants have been around forever, I do think everything must have been tried by someone somewhere at some time, I certainly haven’t invented any.   However on the American forums some coaches seem the need to name and then try and copyright as their invention a proprietary method either for an ego boost or sales patter for buy this book, DVD or lessons.  

There was a big thread on diminishing lead and it was as if someone had just invented the wheel. I found this odd as I had been doing the very thing described in that thread for a while on certain targets and I very much doubt I was the first or only person to be doing it.  

 

[MJJ]

I just use the 'Shut wear its gowen' method. 

 

[Iggy]

Good thread.  

Like others have said, I'm not consciously aware of what method I use really....which may explain a lot. 

Having said that, the more I think about it I tend to use pull away on anything crossing and swing through on virtually everything else. 

I do understand the value of other methods like maintained and how beneficial they can be under certain conditions, but my biggest challenge is remembering to use them. 

Two things I am trying to do at the moment are (a) work on modifying my swing through to 'push' through on going away and narrow quartering away type targets...and (b) being more self discipline with gold points  

I've tried in vein to see the rings on the clay etc and I don't know if it's my old eyes or what but I just can't. I do 'feel' however that the harder I try to focus on the target just as I approach the break point the better the outcome.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I can only agree with Ian and Les.  I can't imagine how people have enough time to track the target, get a lead and shoot it for a kill.  If I do anything other than attack the target right out of the house I get to check to see how far they can fly.  Unfortunately I do have that opportunity more often than I like.  But I'm old and pretty much f**ked up so the reality is   mostly, ah, well, WTF.

so I guess swing thru

And in international sporting at any rate the US shooters seem to be doing OK last I looked.  But who knows REALLY what method they use?

 

[chippy]

i only use maintained lead and its a big disavantage on some targets. i,ve tried shooting quicker to see if i can get into swing through but all that happens is quicker maintained lead, if i let the target get past my gun i,ve got no hope it results in a mad swipe of the gun and a shot into thin air.

 

[RobertBeard]

Well I was going to say maintained lead for me but when I think about it this only applies to crossers, the further away variety.  In a way its like rifling ahead of the clay concentrating on the expected flight line of the clay.  Quartering away I realise are swing through.  Rabbits are a method I was taught by Robert at Wylye where you divide the rabbit length of travel into 3 equal portions and hold the gun at the end of the first section.  When the clay passes the gun you chase it aiming to overtake it and shoot it and the end the 2nd section and it should be dead at the end of the 3rd section which is a form of swing through.  Driven are swing through.  I think I use pull away least of all.

I know where Ian and Les are coming from as instinctive shooting plays a part in my shooting especially close in stuff where there is no time for anything specific or you don't want them to get away too far on going aways.

I surprise myself quite often when I kill birds on instinct which happens when you have not seen a bird beforehand and it comes before you are really ready for it.

This comes from a C class shot who doesn't get out enough!

 

[Jan Powell]

Do you really hit everything you point your gun at by just focussing on the clay???

In a word, yes. See the target, shoot the target. It's as simple as that.

 

[Will Hewland]

In a word, yes. See the target, shoot the target. It's as simple as that.

Do be clear, that is ONLY advice for trap shooting.

 

[Jan Powell]

Ah yes, forgive me. I sometimes forget there's other disciplines out there!

 

[Nick Selby]

after having a lesson at a well known shooting ground near me, when I first started the 'method' I learnt from there was "I bet you can't miss in front"... Suffice to say, I still didn't really have a clue what I was doing and was £135 poorer for the experience. Then I went to see Ed S and he taught me swing through, which got me hitting a lot more than I had previously. I don't shoot much these days but when I do, I still use the advice Ed gave me. 

 

[GavB]

ah the old " I bet you cant miss in front"...

yes I can and do often!

 

[David Paul Gag]

I shoot and teach all the methods, as I feel you can have a base preference but need to be able to use them all on a good round of targets.

my two go to methods are maintained and swing through, but this will largely depend on the presentation.

im not a big follower of the "look at the clay and see the rings" line. I have had this chat with Mr Lyons several times; you can either see something or you can't. There are not various degrees of looking at something. My eyes have been assessed this week and my prescription perfected- can I see rings at 40 yards? Can I f#%k! 

I understand that we do need to look at the bird (not the gun) and for beginners this is an important point worth reinforcing, however I don't believe it is the reason for most misses as some would have you believe.

also, I am 100% aware of lead on pretty much every shot I take, and you will always have a degree of barrel awareness. Try hitting one of Steves 60 yard battues by looking hard at the clay and doing nothing else- let me know how you get on!

Well what a interesting topic 

I am well aware  Ed that you are exponent of minimum gun movement and in fact I TRY to use it myself on longer target's

But  I've also been told that you use it on all targets close stuff as well as distant ?? I find it hard to believe that minimum gun movement  SHOULD be used on close fast targets as a rule.

What do you say ??

Ps

I can feel a lesson coming on ☺

 

[Rosso]

David you would be surprised what the Edmaster got me hitting with little or no gun movement. It's getting it to stick in my head as it does not seem right. He showed me a technique to hit very fast close quartering type crossers, the type you would normaly attack, with next to no gun movement.

 

[ips]

In a word, yes. See the target, shoot the target. It's as simple as that.

succinct....... And just about sums it up really.

 

[westley]

A really fascinating topic, but I am getting seriously worried now....................................am I the only one who keeps both eyes  SHUT ?????     :wacko:

 

[EdSolomons]

Well what a interesting topic 

I am well aware  Ed that you are exponent of minimum gun movement and in fact I TRY to use it myself on longer target's

But  I've also been told that you use it on all targets close stuff as well as distant ?? I find it hard to believe that minimum gun movement  SHOULD be used on close fast targets as a rule.

What do you say ??

Ps

I can feel a lesson coming on ☺

evening! I suppose the key thing to get across is that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I will teach the method that I see best fitting with the shooters current skill set and style rather than trying a one size fits all approach.

it could be that minimal gun movement hinders rather than helps you on the close stuff so we would look at other options. 

Im at Kibworth tomorrow if you want to catch up for a chat between sessions!

ed

 

[Bebo]

Swing through and maintained lead, I think. I don't consciously think which to use on which target, but tend to use swing through on quicker targets and maintained lead on ones where there is more time (longer crossers and loopers in particular).

Have tried pull away but find it really difficult to get the timing consistent.

 

[David Paul Gag]

I shoot and teach all the methods, as I feel you can have a base preference but need to be able to use them all on a good round of targets.

my two go to methods are maintained and swing through, but this will largely depend on the presentation.

im not a big follower of the "look at the clay and see the rings" line. I have had this chat with Mr Lyons several times; you can either see something or you can't. There are not various degrees of looking at something. My eyes have been assessed this week and my prescription perfected- can I see rings at 40 yards? Can I f#%k! 

I understand that we do need to look at the bird (not the gun) and for beginners this is an important point worth reinforcing, however I don't believe it is the reason for most misses as some would have you believe.

also, I am 100% aware of lead on pretty much every shot I take, and you will always have a degree of barrel awareness. Try hitting one of Steves 60 yard battues by looking hard at the clay and doing nothing else- let me know how you get on!

Well what a interesting topic 

I am well aware  Ed that you are exponent of minimum gun movement and in fact I TRY to use it myself on longer target's

But  I've also been told that you use it on all targets close stuff as well as distant ?? I find it hard to believe that minimum gun movement  SHOULD be used on close fast targets as a rule.

What do you say ??

Ps

I can feel a lesson coming on ☺

See you tomorrow