Yet Another E-Petition Needs Support

[Guerini Guy]

There are a small, but almost continuous stream of government e-petitions in which the object is to reduce the anti-social severity of the UK’s gun laws.  

Sometimes the aim is very modest, sometimes more ambitious.  

This one aims to restore the law to the position prior to the 1988 and 1997 Amendment Acts.  Neither act produced any social benefit, in either the short-term, or longer-term.  On the contrary, both cost the UK taxpayer a great deal of money, wasted millions of police man-hours and hurt many tens of thousands of citizens who had not committed any crime.

Please help the cause by signing

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44376

Thanks   :blind:

 

[RobertBeard]

I would sign it if it was just to repeal the pistol ban but I'm afraid that I don't agree that centrefire semi-auto rifles should be available again.

 

[ips]

Thats very interesting robert may I ask why a responsible licenced shooter having undergone rigourous CRB and health checks etc should not be allowed to own a semi auto ??

QUOTE from westward from another similar topic which I fully agree with and believe makes perfect sence.

(hope you dont mind me quoting you Mr westward)

quote

Design something for shooting like a driving licence which shows that the individual has met certain obvious criteria. The holder could then legally buy and keep any type of sporting gun or bow.

unquote

 

[Westward]

I would sign it if it was just to repeal the pistol ban but I'm afraid that I don't agree that centrefire semi-auto rifles should be available again.

Rob, this is a concept I don't understand.

The underlying attitude amongst the antis and those who changed things post Hungerford, is that some types of gun are inherently more dangerous to society than others.

Whilst I believe that some people are inherently more dangerous to society, I don't see how that can be true of guns.

 

[ips]

Let me make my stance clear.

I believe that a "responsible, vetted and licenced" shooter should be able to own up too and including semi auto rifles for sporting use or just for the pleasure of ownership. Licenced guns are of no danger to society as long as they remain in the possesion of the owner.

 

[Les53]

I've signed it.

 

[Guerini Guy]

I acknowledge everybody's point of view but, however, I do not understand Robert's point.

To me, all shooting sports are valid, and therefore also the guns that are required for them. Semi Auto centre fire rifles are essential for Practical Rifle for example !

As for pistols/handguns - we are the ONLY country in EC that does not allow its law abiding citizens to own a handgun. So we see that having to be in line with Europe only applies when it suits the bloody politicians.

They may all have slightly different ways of controlling them such as, in Holland for instance, I believe that a shooter has to get a stamp on his documents every time he completes a competition, and must have a certain number of stamps in order to ensure renewal of licence. This is just a way to ensure that guns are being used for their intended purchase, and is just a small example of how laws can be changed back, but made more sensible. 

Anyway, appreciate the interest and hope a few more sign up. 

Thanks

 

[PhilS]

Done

Sent from my Desire HD using tapatalk 2

 

[RobertBeard]

Sorry for the delay.

I don't see any legitimate need for semi auto fullbore rifles.

I think that these are a step too far.

There are no competitions in either the Commonwealth or Olympic Games that use them.

I regard this as an army or police weapon and not one for civilian use.

A line has to be drawn somewhere and in my humble opinion it needs to be drawn so that these are excluded from public availability.

If you allow a semi auto center fire rifle someone will ask for a machine gun or a grenade launcher or an RPG.

We had Hungerford and the Americans have suffered under the misuse of semi auto fullbore rifles so I believe that we are crazy to suggest that these should be legitimised again.

Sorry but that is my view because guaranteed some lunatic will use one in anger against the populace which will backfire on us all.

 

[Les53]

Sorry for the delay.

I don't see any legitimate need for semi auto fullbore rifles.

I think that these are a step too far.

There are no competitions in either the Commonwealth or Olympic Games that use them.

I regard this as an army or police weapon and not one for civilian use.

A line has to be drawn somewhere and in my humble opinion it needs to be drawn so that these are excluded from public availability.

If you allow a semi auto center fire rifle someone will ask for a machine gun or a grenade launcher or an RPG.

We had Hungerford and the Americans have suffered under the misuse of semi auto fullbore rifles so I believe that we are crazy to suggest that these should be legitimised again.

Sorry but that is my view because guaranteed some lunatic will use one in anger against the populace which will backfire on us all.

The problem is Robert, the same could be said about semi auto pistols or even a revolver come to that. Anything used in the wrong way will get us all into trouble!

 

[RobertBeard]

I take your point but I would even be prepared to sacrifice all pistols other than those used in competitions in either the Commonwealth Games or the Olympics if it meant getting something back rather than nothing.

We have already got back long barrelled revolvers and free pistols as they now both fall outside the definition of a pistol but you won't get back a semi-auto pistol because if it exceeds the pistol definition it becomes a semi-auto fullbore rifle.

 

[ips]

I see Roberts point in that there has to be a limit otherwise you could hyperthetically own an arsenal of fully auto weapons and grenade launchers etc, that is a fair point. IMO that limit would be what it used to be and that is semi auto which seems to be a justifiable limit to private ownership.

 

[Les53]

I take your point but I would even be prepared to sacrifice all pistols other than those used in competitions in either the Commonwealth Games or the Olympics if it meant getting something back rather than nothing.

We have already got back long barrelled revolvers and free pistols as they now both fall outside the definition of a pistol but you won't get back a semi-auto pistol because if it exceeds the pistol definition it becomes a semi-auto fullbore rifle.

Robert, what is the definition of a "long barrelled revolver" ? Just curious really!

 

[ips]

We have already got back long barrelled revolvers and free pistols

My understanding is that we never lost long barrelled pistols as they didnt exist. The long barrell pistol evolved from gallery rifle and found a sort of ......... shall we say loophole. i could be wrong so am happy to be corrected.

I agree though robert, competition target pistol should never have been outlawed, in fact pistol in general should not have been................... the ban has had a really big impact on gun crime has it not .............. NOT.

 

[Les53]

I see Roberts point in that there has to be a limit otherwise you could hyperthetically own an arsenal of fully auto weapons and grenade launchers etc, that is a fair point. IMO that limit would be what it used to be and that is semi auto which seems to be a justifiable limit to private ownership.

Yes Ian, if we just opened the door we could have all sorts of strange stuff hanging around. Let's face it no civilian is ever going to really need an Uzi or an AK47. :fie:

 

[ips]

Les

No but its an interesting topic as some anti could argue that no one really needs any type of gun. Which brings me back to my point made on a couple of other posts that stringent licencing "should " or at least "may" pacify the antis as they would at least know thatv the licensing laws are not only tight but implemented correctly. I say again IMO statistically "the most law abiding citizens are gun owners" end of.

 

[Les53]

My understanding is that we never lost long barrelled pistols as they didnt exist. The long barrell pistol evolved from gallery rifle and found a sort of ......... shall we say loophole. i could be wrong so am happy to be corrected.

I agree though robert, competition target pistol should never have been outlawed, in fact pistol in general should not have been................... the ban has had a really big impact on gun crime has it not .............. NOT.

Yeah, the ban was just a knee jerk reaction. Gun crime is way higher now than before the ban. Much of it carried out with guns that were never legally owned in the UK and many are converted blank firing or air soft types of guns.

 

[RobertBeard]

Robert, what is the definition of a "long barrelled revolver" ? Just curious really!

There is no definition of a long barreled revolver other than that it must not fall within the definition of a pistol as banned in 1997 i.e. typically they have a longer barrel - like a Colt Buntline Revolver plus a metal "stalk" that form part of the handle that extends rearwards to make sure that it is too long to fit into the pistol definition.

I will find some pics to put up.  Can we have a gallery for other guns please Matt?

 

[ips]

Started off as revolvers with extended barrels and an extended stock from the pistol grip therefore it was a barrell over 30cm and overall length of a min 60cm therefore a small bore rifle by definition. The stock quickly evolved into an extended "balance" weight, still over the legal length to be classed as a pistol.

This is how I understand / remember it but as I say I am happy to be corrected.