HSE publish proposal to ban all lead shot

Robden said:

What is the difference between long term lead pollution and rust pollution, I can't find anything about it?
Are we better off ingesting lead or steel in our game birds?

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Jonny English said:

I would like to think that now the report has been published and a timeline given that developments in shot and wads will be underway with the manufacturers. Cartridge companies won't develop or release products until a market is there. All of a sudden there is now going to be a market and in 5 years time a demand for non toxic shot and an environmentally friendly wads. All of them are in the business to stay in business. The shot is already there to a degree and so are the bio wads, the question being volume and price point. As the volume is now going to go up, hopefully the price point becomes more end user friendly. There is already a base there, and I would imagine there is more development to come yet. Sit tight and don't make any rash decisions at this stage of the process.

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Jonny English said:

I would like to think that now the report has been published and a timeline given that developments in shot and wads will be underway with the manufacturers. Cartridge companies won't develop or release products until a market is there. All of a sudden there is now going to be a market and in 5 years time a demand for non toxic shot and an environmentally friendly wads. All of them are in the business to stay in business. The shot is already there to a degree and so are the bio wads, the question being volume and price point. As the volume is now going to go up, hopefully the price point becomes more end user friendly. There is already a base there, and I would imagine there is more development to come yet. Sit tight and don't make any rash decisions at this stage of the process.

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perazman said:

Sadly I don't share your optimism as far as manufacturers are concerned. They currently see budget loads as a necessary evil.

We may see it as cutting their own throats but from their perspective it's margin that matters. None of them are prepared to currently undercut the others to gain market share and run at higher turnover/lower margin.

If the cartridge market halved but increased margin kept their business healthy then that's exactly what they'll do.

PM.

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PeeJay said:

It’s all about the risk/likelihood calculation.

They were lobbied and told how a complete ban would adversely affect Olympic competitors etc putting them at a serious disadvantage.

So they clearly reasoned that the compromise was banning the hundreds of thousands of hobbyists (my word), while allowing the few to still compete. To be fair it does seem a reasonable compromise.

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westley said:

Unless there are any other gasfitters/plumbers/shooters on the Forum who are reaching 80 years of age, I have probably handled or ingested more lead than anybody else on here. I smile when I read just how harmful to us and the environment, we are being told lead actually is. I have yet to see any evidence of the destruction it is causing, and I am unlikely to I am sure. Whilst you are all snug in your eco friendly homes, safe from the devastation that lead is causing, a recent conversation I had with a United Utilities plumber may be of interest. You see ALL of the houses that are situated on the road where I live, are having their water supplied through LEAD piping. I know many have paid to have a plastic water service pipe installed, what they don't realise is, from the isolation valve or water meter situated in the roadway outside their property, to the actual water main is still LEAD ! That does NOT get replaced. The UU plumber would not deny that, he just gave a wry smile, finished his tea and left.
I would be safe in saying the Government will not be chasing the water companies to put their house in order, and replace ALL of their lead piping anytime soon.

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PeeJay said:

I was under the impression that lead piping supplying mains water to premises furs up inside after a while and that, plus water flowing through rather than stood, helps reduce lead. Obviously, the risk of lead to humans is much more about the serious long term ill effects, rather than death, sudden or otherwise.

As for lead damaging wildlife, it does, and several studies and experiments have shown this. Banning lead certainly helped save the Californian Condor. If anyone is interested on how lead affects wildlife it’s all on Google. An elderly plumber who hasn’t been affected doesn’t change that.

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Clynt said:

I'm slightly amused that anyone would suggest believing anything from the likes of media giants such as Google !!! you seem to be backing so say steel over lead excessively ???? is there a reason other than your personal view ?? are you a regular clay shooter or game shooter who has the responsibility of dispatching quarry with the best component's at our disposal ???

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PeeJay said:

I’m always slightly amused at those who use Google being a media giant to dismiss the need for personal research. The factual information about the damage that lead causes is out there. People can choose to ignore the science, the WHO, naturalists and environmentalist etc. if they choose. But you’re flying in the face of accredited experts worldwide. I accept that they could all be wrong and you’re right, but on balance I’ll go with their findings, supported by science.

I’m not backing steel over lead. I’m simply pointing out the science about lead to those who deny it. We should at least be honest, and accept the data, even if we don’t then accept the need to change to steel.

The countries that have banned lead in favour of steel (e.g. USA banned it for waterfowl in 1991) don’t appear to have problems despatching live quarry effectively and efficiently, despite their initial reservations. Norway banned it almost 3 decades ago and have no problems with even large birds like Canada geese. Smaller species present no problems.

Based on their experiences, and many others, it shouldn’t be an issue here.

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Clynt said:

You don't shoot then ??? is that the same WHO that appear to be beholding to the Chinese pay masters ?? the countries you mention ,do they not use automatic single barrel guns with 3" magnum proofing's and seldom use side by sides and under and over shot guns >>? you base your opinions on countries that have little in common with our shooting established systems ? if the data was or has been founded hear then I'll debate with whoever but I'm yet to be convinced with evidence of clarity on our shores

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