686 Sporting vs “Something Better”

[Phrank308]

I am in the market for my first clays gun and am trying to determine where to enter the market. I’ve been shooting rented 686 Onyx’s for the past several years and they seem to work well enough for me. As a result, I was thinking that my first gun should be a “step up” from those such as a 694. When I went into the local shop to try some different guns back to back it became clear how much nicer a new 686 sporting is than an old rental gun. Now I’m much less certain that I need to step up in gun until my shooting has improved and I can clearly articulate what more I’m wanting. I’m right down the middle as far as gun fit is concerned and have been told by both a coach and the shop that something “off the rack” will fit me fine.
 
To me it seems most of the difference between an entry level gun like a 686 and a mid grade gun like a 694 or 725 are durability (rebuild in 10 years vs 5?) and incrementally better fit to the gun (bigger palm swell, better checkering, adjustable balance). Is there something else that sets these guns apart and justifies the additional cost? They all all within budget, so my  main focus is determining what else I’m going to get for my money. Is there something else I should be considering or comparing against?

 

[JoostB]

I have recently bought my first gun. I have tried many different guns at a gun school. I learned that I clearly had a preference for a miroku/ browning 525 type gun.

The school ordered a few different new guns for me. I tried them at the range and bought the one that fitted me the best. 

Before that I have visited several gunstores. Although they were all very helpful, I think nothing beats being able to shoot the gun(s) before you decide to buy.

Funny detail; I also tried a new B725 sporter. Before going on to the range I held and thought that due to the palmswell I couldn't reach the trigger. Then while shooting it I learned that clearly when I didn't think of it and had to shoot it, I held it differently and the palmswell didn't bother me. I ended up buying a B525 Ultra XS Pro.

 

[Westward]

Lets establish one thing: All 6xx series Berettas are equally reliable and durable.  They're very reliable generally (692 excepted!) and there's also very little - if any - difference in the fit and finish, regardless of the model. What does vary is the specification, accessories, wood grade and decoration. Whether or not the 694 is a step up from say a Silver Pigeon I sporter is arguable, but it's certainly not twice the gun, just twice the price.

There are 3 or 4 strong alternatives to consider at the 694's price point, but  the only comparable alternative to the SP I is the B525.

If you're sold on Berettas then the SP I would be a good gun to start with. I'd also suggest a used one as it's almost guaranteed that you'll be looking to change it within a couple of years.

In the meantime try as many different guns as you can because there are other choices than Beretta.

 

[MartynB]

Just an opinion of mine , but if you can find a 30 ish  year old Beretta 682 Gold in good fettle  , 1) you’ll pay today for a used one  more or less the same price as the gun cost new , and that will be a little less than a new Silver Pigeon  , and a little more than a used one .  . 2) you’ll buy a gun hand assembled in Beretta’s competition department 3) the gun was built to be serviced with everything replaceable even at the barrel shoulder . The wood then was better also  .  4) it’s a gun in the right hands that’s capable of winning world championships.   Sure you can get all the new developments , like over bored barrels , optima choke this that and the other , all sorts of must haves (that won’t actually buy you a target)  , but a quality built gun still top trumps production line assembly IMHO. 
 

Then again the one thing I’ve learned over 40 + years of shooting is that irrespective of opinions if a gun suits you , you’ll shoot well with it . Shoot as many guns as you can rent or borrow before you part with your cash . 

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Lots of what comes to mind has been said before, so I’ll keep it brief. While some parts on a thirty year old 686 special (I own one) are still replaceable, others have been “updated” and are not as easily acquired. The direct purchase ability of available parts from Beretta is valuable to me, but then I don’t mind taking a screwdriver or sandpaper to my guns. 
 

I also own a 692, and must be lucky because it has never failed me. Then again, I clean and lube the ejector bits. Different story altogether. I prefer it over the 686 for several reasons, mostly because of adaptability. You can adapt any old 686 as well, but not as easy and less so when you want to change it back. The 692 has less perceived recoil, and balances better for me. Trigger feels a bit better on the 692 but that’s picking nits as the 686 is crisp too. 
 

Buying used is perfectly fine, but it helps if you know what to look for and what to avoid. At the end of the day personal preference will play a huge part and material (other than gunfit) won’t beat skill. If you still shoot the gun you buy now in ten years time, more power to you but you’d be the exception to the rule. 

 

[Freddypip]

I would agree with the comments above. The only additional points I would make are,

• The 694 etc have palm swells and adjustible triggers which may help you - only you can tell. You can also alter the balance with weights which again may help. The adjustible combs on the 694 add very little to the weight at the back end which is easy to balance out with 32 inch barrels. The shop may say the standard gun fits . . . 
  
• If you read Rich Coles's review of the 694 it is clear Beretta have made a good step forward - but Westward is entirely right - it is not twice the gun. It will need servicing just the same. You're probably spending half the guns costs on things which later you find you did not need.
  
• A (new or good used) 686 SP or White Onyx will always hold its value well. You will loose little if you trade it later for a 694 or it will be an excellent backup.
  
• MartynB makes a very good point - a used 682 Gold is a (seriously) great gun and if you want something more substantial than an SP (palm swell, slightly heavily etc) it would be an excellent choice. In short do not ignore the second hand market for your first gun.
  

All of the above applies to Brownings and their model line up. You will not go wrong at the bottom of the 686/525 or a Miroku ranges whilst you make up your mind. Most shooters learn so much in the first year or two that the gun they started with has usually been replaced or earmarked for replacement by the time the learning curve drops off.

 

[Phrank308]

Thank you everyone. I particularly appreciate the points about how this first gun will likely be replaced soon simply because of my own learning and development. I had suspected that working with a single gun would teach me what I don’t know I don’t know yet and its good to hear that confirmed. I agree with what everyone has said about both these holding their value. It’s actually the number one reason I’ll likely buy new, just not enough savings to be had used in the current market. Now I just need to decide between a 12 or a 20

 

[Will Hewland]

. Now I just need to decide between a 12 or a 20

No you don’t. 

 

[Freddypip]

12 guage. 20's have their place but they are not starter guns.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

12 gauge without a doubt. The economy of shells alone will save you your second gun. 
 

The adjustable stock is definitely a good recommendation for a first time buyer. You will likely correct or develop posture and stance over the course of your first year and the ability for minor adaptations (without committing to the cost and effect of altering a stock) is a good option to have. 

 

[MartynB]

Now I just need to decide between a 12 or a 20

I shot with a 20 gauge Miroku MK60 on Saturday , why ? Because I’m a senior - walked over 5 miles  between driven pheasant drives , and I didn’t want to knacker my back carrying the 38 Trap Gun , or the K80 .  
 

But you’re going to be strolling from stand to stand 

You said you want a clay gun , just ask any of the CPSA registered shooters on here how many of them shoot competitions with a 20 .  Remember a lot of these boys and girls are spending hundreds of pounds a week shooting and lots of them have spent many thousands on kit and can pick anything they want to shoot with , and it will never be a 20 for competition shooting  .
 

The lack of choice and  higher price in  20g clay cartridges alone is one  reason to put the idea on the back burner ,

 

[Paul120]

 Now I just need to decide between a 12 or a 20

No to the 20 for the reasons given. 12 all the way.

 

[Gavin]

It would be a used DT10 for me 

 

[Luke_(NL)]

It would be a used DT10 for me 

At 3K plus and more for one that doesn’t show it’s age that’s not entirely in the same league as a 686, but I’d also be tempted if comparing that against purchase of new 694. 

 

[ips]

Just an opinion of mine , but if you can find a 30 ish  year old Beretta 682 Gold in good fettle  , 1) you’ll pay today for a used one  more or less the same price as the gun cost new , and that will be a little less than a new Silver Pigeon  , and a little more than a used one .  . 2) you’ll buy a gun hand assembled in Beretta’s competition department 3) the gun was built to be serviced with everything replaceable even at the barrel shoulder . The wood then was better also  .  4) it’s a gun in the right hands that’s capable of winning world championships.   Sure you can get all the new developments , like over bored barrels , optima choke this that and the other , all sorts of must haves (that won’t actually buy you a target)  , but a quality built gun still top trumps production line assembly IMHO. 
 

Then again the one thing I’ve learned over 40 + years of shooting is that irrespective of opinions if a gun suits you , you’ll shoot well with it . Shoot as many guns as you can rent or borrow before you part with your cash . 

Agree with this. I have had she'd loads of Beretta and nothing compares to the early 682 gold for value for money in fact I would say it's the best gun Beretta ever made. Less than 12 hundred quid gets you one, job done

 

[Les53]

Agree with this. I have had she'd loads of Beretta and nothing compares to the early 682 gold for value for money in fact I would say it's the best gun Beretta ever made. Less than 12 hundred quid gets you one, job done

What??? You told me time and time again that your DT10 eell was the best gun they ever made!

 

[RJD]

12b to cope with move to steel easily
 

Buy the gun you want to end up with, swapping guns gets expensive 

 

[ips]

What??? You told me time and time again that your DT10 eell was the best gun they ever made!

All things considered pal all things considered

 

[Browning xs]

Browning xs Pro  would be a excellent choice with the adjustable stock