A can of worms!

[Les53]

OK guys I may be opening a can of worms here, but here goes anyway! I have over the years seen so many potentially fatal things done with shotguns that it has always made me wonder why training has never been made compulsory, before a person is granted a certificate, not after. It would cost money obvioulsy, however if certain establishments, such as gun clubs, were licensed to do it, then it would surely put money into the sport. I have heard it said that such a scheme would cost shooters too much, however nobody has ever put a figure on it as far as I know, because I doubt that anyone has thought about it enough. I fail to understand why we can be let loose with a gun without any training at all, however if you wanted to drive a vehicle you need to pass a test and that requires tuition of course.

I am not talking about some lengthy course that would try to turn a non shooter into a champion, I'm talking about a short course on how to safely own and shoot a shotgun. At a guess I would say that it should not take more than a day to take such a course, so it should not cost that much and if a person could not afford such a course, well could they really afford to shoot at all? I think not!

So what do you guys think?

 

[jake.keeling]

I think I'll go get your coat!

 

[Darkside]

.........I'm talking about a short course on how to safely own and shoot a shotgun. At a guess I would say that it should not take more than a day to take such a course........

So what do you guys think?

A DAY!!! Jesus, you'd need to be a real stupid f***er to need a day of "tuition" to be safe to "own and shoot a shotgun"!!! Boom!!! Got my coat too......

 

[Clanchief]

He is taking into account the trap shooting brigade,,,,,,,,,,,,, going to start the car !!!

 

[RobertBeard]

I would have thought that an hour would be adequate on being safe with a shotgun of any type.

Why can clubs not police this as in target rifle shooting whereby you have to have a probabtionary club membership before you are accepted for full membership which is put to the vote at a committee meeting. If you are unsafe or of unsound mind you don't get full membership and the police have to be informed. If you don't belong to a club then you had better join one and I mean a physical club as opposed to a virtual club like this one. To be in a shooting club you have to be an active member and if you don't turn up for 6 months then the club has to inform the police. I think that Ground could be made synonymous with Club for this purpose. Your membership card is then proof that you have passed your safety training.

 

[Hamster]

Why can clubs not police this as in target rifle shooting whereby you have to have a probabtionary club membership before you are accepted for full membership which is put to the vote at a committee meeting.

This used to be the norm when I started, self regulation can be very effective but it only really reaches people who visit clubs regularly, many use shot guns for vermin or sporting purposes alone.

 

[RobertBeard]

This used to be the norm when I started, self regulation can be very effective but it only really reaches people who visit clubs regularly, many use shot guns for vermin or sporting purposes alone.

Then let them belong to the BASC and make them pass a BASC test - both rifle and shotgun depending on what they are shooting

 

[ips]

Les

I agree and have thought the same for many years, having been forced to stand on a line with some numpties at my old club on a thursday evening. Folk waving guns about, walking from peg 5 to 1 with cartridges still in, even just getting them out the car or out of a slip etc etc. In these days of over exuberant Risk Assesment etc I am suprised that the CPSA and or each club has not had to implemment such a thing. I reckon 2-4 hrs would do it no problem as to do it properly and in acordance with most H&S courses, presentations, inductions etc there would usually be a short and basic multi choice exam paper at the end.

 

[teepee1234]

Les, you said it yourself - "potentially fatal....."

How many people do you know who have actually HAD fatal accidents which can be squarely set at the door of newbies/numpties/lack of common sense or knowledge??

For christ's sake, we already live in a nanny-state society where all the assholes who have such meaningless and shallow lives believe they know what's best for everyone else!

You're more likely to have an accident crossing the pissing road!! Or loading the dishwasher!

And I'm NOT getting me coat! :angry:

 

[Lesley]

Being new to the sport, and never having held a gun before the beginning of this year, I find it strange that you do not have to take any sort of training into the safe handling of a gun. The first time I handled a shotgun scared the life out of me and the only person telling me what to do was hubby. I did have a lesson with a CPSA qualified Instructor soon after who confirmed the safety procedures Mike had taught me, but that was my decision and not something everyone will do.

Mike and I have also been to local shoots, especially one recently, where some people taking part had no idea what they were doing and were, I considered, a danger to themselves and to those around them. They did not know how to hold a gun, where to point it and, at one point were told to stop until someone could give them some direction, and Mike has seen several instances of people waving closed guns around a group of people.

When applying for a licence, the authorities are so concerned as to whether you are of sound mind, would it also not be prudent to have to include some sort of "safety certificate" that states you have been taught the rudimentary rules of gun safety.

 

[tiptop]

At the end of the day it does not matter how much training or how many times people are told wether it be using a shotgun/rifle or driving a car its still only as safe as the person holding the gun or drivng the car.

People pass their driving test and still drive like loonies.

 

[ips]

For christ's sake, we already live in a nanny-state society where all the assholes who have such meaningless and shallow lives believe they know what's best for everyone else!

Yeh bit like them blokes who told us about the dangers of asbestos (cant find a sarcastic smiley)

4500 lives lost per year to asbestos related diseases

2500 killed on the roads

I agree H&S is sometimes over the top but sometimes just sometimes its beneficial.

And not only that but a mandatory safety induction surely would do no harm in portraying shooters as the responsible folk that we are.

 

[KR24]

I'm a member at Nottingham & District Gun Club, my first lesson was 2hrs long with the first hour in the classroom covering all aspects of gun safety for just an extra £5.00.

 

[Les53]

Les, you said it yourself - "potentially fatal....."

How many people do you know who have actually HAD fatal accidents which can be squarely set at the door of newbies/numpties/lack of common sense or knowledge??

For christ's sake, we already live in a nanny-state society where all the assholes who have such meaningless and shallow lives believe they know what's best for everyone else!

You're more likely to have an accident crossing the pissing road!! Or loading the dishwasher!

And I'm NOT getting me coat! :angry:

I have been very close to being killed by a muppet with an auto. New guy, new gun, forgot he had a shell in the tube and turned around, I was about 40 yeards away when he pulled the trigger by accident. Luckily he had a skeet choke in it and the shot bounced off my wellies, which he did too a few moments later! If he had been using a full choke and had been holding the gun higher it could have been a lot worse that it was! I have encountered many near misses over the years and it is not "nanny state" to want to make sure that anyone who owns a gun is safe surely, is it?

 

[ips]

KR24 thanks you for that

There you go then 2 hrs job done.

And did you find the safety briefing interesting and or infromative or did you think it was a waste of time ??

Just interested. ?

 

[Michael]

Yeh bit like them blokes who told us about the dangers of asbestos (cant find a sarcastic smiley)

4500 lives lost per year to asbestos related diseases

2500 killed on the roads

I agree H&S is sometimes over the top but sometimes just sometimes its beneficial.

And not only that but a mandatory safety induction surely would do no harm in portraying shooters as the responsible folk that we are.

Good thinking, only 2 weeks ago at a local shoot I watched as someone who clearly SHOULD know better, picked up his gun from a rack showed the barrels to all the waiting shooters at the stand & then opened it. This is not the first time of seeing this sort of thing. This week I watched a young girl going round with a very accomplished group, she didn't know how to load, how to stand much less how to shoot the thing. But we all stand & watch cursing under our breath for fear of upsetting someone & causing a row. Why didn't they explain the basics to her?

 

[FieldandClay]

The training is available but not mandatory, (one day it might be) It is accepted by licensing authorities as good practice

CPSA Acadamy - SHOTGUN SKILLS COURSES

A one-day course aimed at persons wishing to acquire a gun, or novices who have recently acquired a shotgun. It covers personal and range safety, shotgun types and use, cartridges and chokes. There is also a practical session on the CPSA method of shooting. The course includes loan guns (if required), ear protection, eye protection, all clays and cartridges. The course is open to members and non-members of the CPSA.

other organisations may run similar training!

 

[Les53]

I would have thought that an hour would be adequate on being safe with a shotgun of any type.

Why can clubs not police this as in target rifle shooting whereby you have to have a probabtionary club membership before you are accepted for full membership which is put to the vote at a committee meeting. If you are unsafe or of unsound mind you don't get full membership and the police have to be informed. If you don't belong to a club then you had better join one and I mean a physical club as opposed to a virtual club like this one. To be in a shooting club you have to be an active member and if you don't turn up for 6 months then the club has to inform the police. I think that Ground could be made synonymous with Club for this purpose. Your membership card is then proof that you have passed your safety training.

Robert, you are right. Rifle and pistol clubs do act in such a manner as I remember well. When I got my first shotgun certificate, the officer who did my inspection asked where I had shot and who gave me lessons. He would have been reluctant to give it to me if I had not had some training! He also checked with the club manager to see if I was telling the truth.

 

[Les53]

At the end of the day it does not matter how much training or how many times people are told wether it be using a shotgun/rifle or driving a car its still only as safe as the person holding the gun or drivng the car.

People pass their driving test and still drive like loonies.

This is true! However I am talking about people who do not know how to be safe with a gun, not a numpty who ignores the common sense rules of gun safety.