A can of worms!

[ips]

Things move on in the world of H&S when I started you could keep your gun under your bed, a girlfriend of mines dad in early 80s propped his purdey up in the corner of the kitchen. We wouldnt dream of doing that now.

 

[tiptop]

Pretty sure that when i went on my first have a go session with Oxford Gun Co there was an introduction on gun safety before we went out onto the range.

 

[KR24]

Thanks ips.

I really enjoyed it, being new to the sport I had lots of questions which were all answered during the briefing, then we went out and put it all into practice on the Skeet layout.

As far as im aware its standard practice NDGC for people new to the sport. As has been pointed out in a previous post, simple things like removal from a slip or placing and removal from a gun rack, I would have had no idea otherwise.

 

[tiptop]

I would like to think that if you are introduced to any form of shooting through any club the first thing that should be taught is gun safety.

If you are introduced through a load of hillbillies then??????

 

[ips]

KR24

Many thanks for your input it is most welcome, sounds like NDGC do a great job and you obvioulsy found it of great benefit.

Les's case for safety breifing's is pretty much rested as there appears to be no reason not to have H&S related information passed on to all new shooters (in fact some old uns as well)

 

[Les53]

A DAY!!! Jesus, you'd need to be a real stupid f***er to need a day of "tuition" to be safe to "own and shoot a shotgun"!!! Boom!!! Got my coat too......

I didn't say it would take a day mate, I said it would not take more than a day! It really depends on how much depth there is involved. The original course which I did included instruction on pump action, semi auto, bolt action and break barrel guns. It also included info on basic gun maintenance, cartridge types and their uses, as well as cartridge/gun storage, the latter being mainly to avoid damage to shells and guns due to exposure to heat, damp etc. The course was about five hours I think and I enjoyed it too.

 

[teepee1234]

Yeh bit like them blokes who told us about the dangers of asbestos (cant find a sarcastic smiley)

4500 lives lost per year to asbestos related diseases

2500 killed on the roads

I agree H&S is sometimes over the top but sometimes just sometimes its beneficial.

And not only that but a mandatory safety induction surely would do no harm in portraying shooters as the responsible folk that we are.

You can be as sarcastic as you like, old son, but it doesn't alter the fact that "asbestos related diseases" is an entirely different issue than the OP, and the "2500 killed on the roads" were caused by either trained and licensed people, or law breakers. And it merely underlines my comment about having more chance of having an accident crossing the road.

Just because you have a piece of paper stating that you're safe, doesn't mean you are. It's the responsibility of all of us to police this, not just a few people who are paid to issue certificates.

 

[ips]

courses can take as long or as short as the person doing it wants it to be.

I have done some H&S courses which took a full 8 hrs then done same course with different bloke a year later and done in 3 hrs. Have had site inductions ranging from 10mins to 5hrs

sorry went right off on a tangent then

 

[ips]

teepee

I dont want to fall out over this, but my analogy of asbestos was meant to highlite the fact that not all H&S issues are noncense and sometimes the folk in offices acctually come up with issues that are relevent.

You are correct in some of your comments of course. Anyway my previous few posts on the matter elaborate further.

regards - ian

 

[RobertBeard]

Why can clubs not police this as in target rifle shooting whereby you have to have a probabtionary club membership before you are accepted for full membership which is put to the vote at a committee meeting. If you are unsafe or of unsound mind you don't get full membership and the police have to be informed. If you don't belong to a club then you had better join one and I mean a physical club as opposed to a virtual club like this one. To be in a shooting club you have to be an active member and if you don't turn up for 6 months then the club has to inform the police. I think that Ground could be made synonymous with Club for this purpose. Your membership card is then proof that you have passed your safety training.

The culture amongst target shooters is obviously quite different. Anyone answering back and rubbishing some point of safety would get short shrift in any of the 3 clubs that I belong to and similarly at the open competitions that I attend such as the Annual National Bisley Rifle meeting, National Pistol Meetings and Cornwall, Dorest and Devon county meetings. Disqualification, removal from membership are our sanctions and we use them as we don't want our club or our sport put at risk. I can only describe the culture as being one where whenever I get my rifle out of its case I make a point of trying to show that it is safe. We have range officers whose job it is to check rifles have their bolt removed or a breech flag in place to show that there can be no cartridge in it. If one of us forgets the breech flag the shooter next to you gives you a nudge to put it in even thought the bolt is already open. No offence is taken - we accept that we are all human, mistakes can be made but if everyone helps each other it will be a safer place for all of us. I can't think of any event ever where I have seen or heard of anything like the examples that we have read above.

If one takes this into the shotgun arena then I would stand referees to act like our range officers, insiting you enter with a broken and empty gun and you leave the stand in the same way. Anyone seem wandering around between stands with shells in even a broken gun would be disqualified and entry fee forfeit. Its a question of establishing a standard and everyone sticking to it. Shooters will soon learn the rules or find that they get ostracised. We cannot have a situation where those promoting safe and responsible gun handling are the ones who feel that they will be ostracised if they say anything.

As I said in a previous post, if club officials and ground owners and their staff are known to ignore dangerous practice then I believe that they could be held to be negligent as they owe shooters a duty of care on their ground if and when there is an accident and then they might not be able to get insurance with all the trouble that that brings.

 

[Les53]

I knew this would be a can of worms! Whenever the subject comes up at clay shooting grounds it always stirs up some great opinions. At rifle and pistol clubs it is a different story though, as Robert will know! :.:

 

[ips]

Les

You have caused no end of trouble with this one. ....... and got me involved ....... again.

 

[ips]

Dont know about rifle clubs but when I had a go at Field target (air rifle) about 15 years ago they wouldnt let me go around the course on my own said I had to shoot with a safety officer who would check I was safe. I said...............

"ang on a minute there amigo I been a shootin since I was 10yrs old and have a SG certificate and been a shootin them there clays for 12yrs." doesnt matter you still need to be deemed safe to handle arifle by our SO.

 

[RobertBeard]

I knew this would be a can of worms! Whenever the subject comes up at clay shooting grounds it always stirs up some great opinions. At rifle and pistol clubs it is a different story though, as Robert will know! :.:

Les

You have caused no end of trouble with this one. ....... and got me involved ....... again.

You are obviously a good pair of windup merchants :.: :.:

 

[Les53]

Les

You have caused no end of trouble with this one. ....... and got me involved ....... again.

Oh go on Ian, you know you love it!! :.: Having also shot rifle and pistol, safety training to me seems to be a simple first step in any form of shooting. I have seen demostrations of what a shotgun is capable of when fired at fairly close range Ian, it's not pretty stuff!

 

[Les53]

You are obviously a good pair of windup merchants :.: :.:

No Robert, us wind up merchants? Heaven forbid!!! :.:

 

[ips]

Les

I dont blame people for being suspicous of new fangled H&S stuff its a bleedin nightmare

I am used to it as my business invloves sensitive sites and environments so we are inundated with RAMS and H&S therefore it doesnt bother me. Unfortunatelly weather you like it or not we live in modern times were you cant just do what you want without the propper training and or induction etc etc etc. Mandatory safety training for shooters WILL undoubtedly come in, surely its better to implement it now rather than be dragged there kicking and screaming. After all what harm does it do and we have it from a new shooter that it is a worythwhile thing to do.

 

[Darkside]

The culture amongst target shooters is obviously quite different. Anyone answering back and rubbishing some point of safety would get short shrift in any of the 3 clubs that I belong to and similarly at the open competitions that I attend ..............

Robert, I hate rifle comps because of the over the top arsehole range officers and the condecending way they treat everyone like idiots. Do you need to compair EVERYTHING to poxy rifle comps, been there, done it , don't enjoy it, took up clay shooting to get away from it!!!

 

[ips]

Les

Have a seat my friend darkside is taking over on this one

Let someone else take some flack

Darkside - only joking pal

 

[Les53]

Robert, I hate rifle comps because of the over the top arsehole range officers and the condecending way they treat everyone like idiots. Do you need to compair EVERYTHING to poxy rifle comps, been there, done it , don't enjoy it, took up clay shooting to get away from it!!!

Blimey, don't go near the OT ranges at Bisley mate! Even someone fidgeting on the line can result in the squad being stopped and the fidget getting told how to behave! :.: We trap shooters really know how to live! :.: :.: